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North Galion with "Jaeger" AE style dial

Started by countryman, January 27, 2021, 04:50:12 PM

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countryman

Looks like I found a suitable dial, or 2 to be exact :-)
That does not answer the question who did this quite professional conversion and for what purpose  :-\

countryman

The dials arrived and are in good order.
New surprise: The recess in the case is too deep for the dial. The screw pattern and diameter would fit, but the finger stop prevents the dial from slipping in. And if it would, it would sit too deep in the case. Do I need a spacer again?

Pics:
-New AE dial (left), old French dial with spacers, carefully manufactured in Aluminium.

-New dial dropped into case

tubaman

Yes, it still needs a spacer - see my photo.
I only know as a new-old-stock one I have came with one in its box.
It's 4.5mm (0.175") thick.

countryman

Thanks a lot for the info. I could use distance pieces/washers/rolls while longer screws will be the next hard-to-find item (metric world here).
I'm also still a bit concerned by the thought that I might "improve" a rare original variety into a cobbler's job.
Here's another North Galion with a French dial. OK the "dial card" makes clear that this one was tinkered with.
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/north-electric-telephone-line-ringer-telefon-alt-schwarz-vintage/1703881611-240-303
Picture from the ad:

tubaman

Quote from: countryman on March 27, 2021, 12:30:14 PM
...
I'm also still a bit concerned by the thought that I might "improve" a rare original variety into a cobbler's job.
Here's another North Galion with a French dial. OK the "dial card" makes clear that this one was tinkered with.
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/north-electric-telephone-line-ringer-telefon-alt-schwarz-vintage/1703881611-240-303
Picture from the ad:

It is interesting that there are a few of these about with French dials fitted. Perhaps leave it as found as you say?
:)

countryman

Right now I dug into a box of assorted screws and found what I needed - salvaged computer parts! The thread fits and it gives the correct distance. Amen.
I'll keep the french dial so there's an option to swap back again in case there were any new findings concerning an officially converted version.

QuoteAs FABphones has just said, the French card retainers are unfortunately very difficult to find.

I made an approach to fabricate such a retainer. The card is a copy from a different French phone I have.

Jack Ryan

Quote from: countryman on March 27, 2021, 01:00:56 PM
Right now I dug into a box of assorted screws and found what I needed - salvaged computer parts! The thread fits and it gives the correct distance. Amen.
I'll keep the french dial so there's an option to swap back again in case there were any new findings concerning an officially converted version.

I made an approach to fabricate such a retainer. The card is a copy from a different French phone I have.


You can use tubular spacers and longer screws as well but in either case, be careful with the length of the screws. A Type 24 dial is pretty safe but, for example, screws that are slightly too long will break the enamel number plate of a Mercedes dial.

Jack


countryman

Thanks for the hint Jack. In this case (the lower 2 pics of my last post) the relatively long spacers from a computer plug fitted in without doing damage, I checked that carefully.

countryman

Another North Galion with a French/German history. This time a dial-less one (with wrong handset). Maybe a hint to the origin of the phones with wrong dials? Were they originally dial-less when they came to Europe, maybe as military material, and were modified to be re-used later?
https://www.ebay.de/itm/313507905663


countryman

Quote from: countryman on March 27, 2021, 01:00:56 PM
I'll keep the french dial so there's an option to swap back again in case there were any new findings concerning an officially converted version.


It looks like a new finding has been made:
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/353796479791
The seller says french dials have been fitted to imported Northern phones. Hard to imagine this happened 1941, but maybe post-war? I'm going to ask the seller via eBay message...

FABphones

My thoughts...

Likely the original dial failed and was replaced with a French dial - more easily available and familiar.

The refurb could have been done by the seller or any previous owner.

Price is expensive.
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************

countryman

The seller's answer goes into the same direction (except for the price idea  ;) ).
It seems a number of North Galion phones came to continental Europe but each was converted individually.
In fact you never see them with a correct dial... quite funny.

Etienne

My guess: french dials were most probably mandatory after they were selected by the PTT 1927 to connect the phone to their network. I saw an AE40 with this dial.
I suppose that phones simply were "converted" when they were imported.
In the 1930's CGTT (Compagnie Générale de Téléphonie et de Télégraphie), Siemens' subsidiary in France, produced a (deeply) modified version of the Modell 36, the wiring diagram of which clearly mentions 3 types of dials, S&H, S&H modified, PTT type. The PTT one is slightly smaller than the S&H, and requires a black painted metal ring to fit. Same is available on a Siemens SA28, capacitor's date 1927. Of course, the dial lock does not exist in this configuration.
I also have a BTMC 2712A with a french dial. This one has a factory-made, iron-cast-molded adaptor to hold the dial. Of course, in all cases the dial protrudes... but to what I saw the conversions were not really individual.

countryman

Thank you for your thoughts. As illustrated in the beginning of the thread, the conversion on my phone was also done in a complex and professional-looking manner. As these converted Northern sets pop up from time to time, I had hoped to find some rhyme and reason who imported them, and for what purpose. The phones were usually made during wartime, but most likely did not come to France before summer 1944. The rest of the story might be interesting, but remains unknown.

Etienne

Here is one for sale on Leboncoin. No dial.
https://www.leboncoin.fr/telephonie/2078046945.htm

Seller writes it would come from the (french?) navy.

There were U.S. Army bases in France after the war (1948-1967). Sometimes described as "la période américaine" in the - sometimes rural- areas which discovered the American way of life.
https://www.cairn.info/revue-relations-internationales-2007-1-page-37.htm
The bases were built by the french army but the Americans also brought their own stuff- there was an incident in 1951, as the SHAPE installed American "No parking" signs on the Champs-Élysées, without even asking the french authorities for permission!
But I suppose, had they brought their own telephones, wouldn't they be marked as belonging to the army?