AE 40 help needed

[kozzy]

I just picked up an old automatic electric model 40 desk phone. I am new to phone repair, so bear with me. I added a temporary modular cord to test it. Heres what i got.

1. When i plug it in i get a dial tone. I cannot hang up the phone when i place the handset back on the cradle.
2. I disconnected the ringer. I figured it might be backfeeding through the ringer coil staying conneted when i hang up. This disconnects the phone. I cannot dial out on this phone. I suspect the 1uf capacitor should be removed. Most of the pictures i see do not have this installed.

I am pretty sure this is a common ringer wired phone. The 3rd wire went to a connection that was not used

Any help would be appreciated, please forgive my newness at this.

The phone neexs cleaned. I plan on doing this after i have operation so the pictures do not convey all the info.

[LarryInMichigan]

The first thing to verify is that your phone service supports pulse dialing.

Larry

[AE_Collector]

That is an old timer...note the metal dial mounting bracket.

Many AE 40's do have two capacitors rather than just one "dual capacitor" mounted on the baseplate. Need a picture of the baseplate including capacitor and ringer.

The third lead of the cord allows for grounded ringing used with party line service.

Terry

[kozzy]

Ok, not sure if my phone line supports pulse dialing. I will have to check on that one.
Now, would the ringer coils be high enough impedance to make the system think the phone is still off of the reciever?

[LarryInMichigan]

Ok, not sure if my phone line supports pulse dialing. I will have to check on that one.
Now, would the ringer coils be high enough impedance to make the system think the phone is still off of the reciever?

If the ringer capacitor (condenser) is shorted, the phone would look like it was "off-hook".  Ringer capacitors have been known to fail on occasion, but that does not seem to be common.  I would first focus on making the phone work without the ringer and then investigating the ringer afterward.  If the ringer capacitor is bad, you can use a small modern capacitor in its place.

Larry

[kozzy]

Ok, i contacted my phone provider (verizon) to see if they support pulse dialing. They said yes. I think they are full of $/!÷. It should be noted that i am very rural and verizon also is my DSL provider. With the ringer disconnected, i can call the phone and have a conversation with myself.

I was told by a member to wire just the ringer up in series with the capacitor and call the phone and see if its busy. I havent done that yet as I was cleaning the phone all evening. Although i am beginning to suspect my phone carrier as the major source of my problems.

I am wondering if a dialgizmo might be the answer to most of my problems. Anyone have any experience with these.
I really need to figure out the ringing thing though. I still suspect that ringer coils on this are such that they make the sytem think the phone is being used when it is still on the cradle. This has me befuddled.

[unbeldi]

Since the phone is so dirty, I suspect there is also a lot of crud (pardon) in the dial to cause it to run slowly.   I have seen cases where Verizon lines these days only support pulse dialing if it exceeds 9 pulses per second.  So, I would suggest you take the dial out and clean it as best as possible, preferably ultrasonically if you don't want to disassemble it completely yourself.
Even if it gains only 1 PPS that way, it may well work on the Verizon line.

Do you have another dial phone that you can compare dial speed with ?  If you set them next to one another, wind up both dials, and release them at the same moment, you should clearly see any speed difference.

[kozzy]

No, i dont have any other rotary phones. I did pull the dial assembly and cleaned it thoroughly. There was a lot of mud in it. I assume the phone was in a flood at one time. I reassembled and oiled it with some watch oil. It turns smoothly and quickly. I didnt think that was a problem it just bothered me. No matter how many times the phone pulses per second it stays on dial tone. That makes me think its the phone service.

I did pull one leg of the ringer cap to remove it from circuit. I checked it with an ohm meter. Its shorted. I made sure that it was fully discharger 1st so i didnt get any erroneous readings. Its definitely "boots up". I will replace it tonight after work. I plan on "restuffing" it. That way i can keep the original package qnd secure it. For those who are unfamiliar with that, its a technique that a lot of tube radio restorers use. That way it looks original. I also restore old tube radios.
I will let everyone now if that solves the ringer issue.

[unbeldi]

No, i dont have any other rotary phones. I did pull the dial assembly and cleaned it thoroughly. There was a lot of mud in it. I assume the phone was in a flood at one time. I reassembled and oiled it with some watch oil. It turns smoothly and quickly. I didnt think that was a problem it just bothered me. No matter how many times the phone pulses per second it stays on dial tone. That makes me think its the phone service.

I did pull one leg of the ringer cap to remove it from circuit. I checked it with an ohm meter. Its shorted. I made sure that it was fully discharger 1st so i didnt get any erroneous readings. Its definitely "boots up". I will replace it tonight after work. I plan on "restuffing" it. That way i can keep the original package qnd secure it. For those who are unfamiliar with that, its a technique that a lot of tube radio restorers use. That way it looks original. I also restore old tube radios.
I will let everyone now if that solves the ringer issue.

If it is indeed shorted, it shouldn't show a "boot up" effect though.

The ringing capacitor should be the smaller capacitor (1 µF) in the housing, not the large one on the base (4 or 5 µF). Some instruments only have one canister containing two caps though.

[kozzy]

Ok, i restuffed the ringer cap. I used a .33ufd as it was the largest i had and i wanted to try. She works! The wife is happy with the way it sounds. And, as an added benefit, it does now dial out. I guess that makes sense though. With the ringing capacitor shorted out current would be directly shorted out via the shunting switches. So when the switches closed it would act as though you just hung the reciever on the cradle.
Didnt see that one coming until i went back to the print to see what was going on. Anyone else ever see this?
Ken

[LarryInMichigan]

Sure.  If the ringer capacitor is shorted, the ringer will shunt the dial, so the dial will not break the circuit.  I am glad that the wife is happy.  When you get you 150th phone, please let us know how happy the wife still is .

Larry

[Pourme]

After my 35th to 40th she couldn't tell I had another  one....

[TelePlay]

After my 35th to 40th she couldn't tell I had another  one....

[stub]

 kozzy,
           Great job !!!!!   stub

[kozzy]

I cant complain about the wife,.she tolerates my hobbies.
Is there a preestablished formula for calculating REN?
I have a few more projects id like to rackle.