Dear Forum:
I have a AE WA-1154A transmission network that I'd like to convert to use a AE tone dial with, please.
I know it involves removing the spark suppressor cap. from the network, but I can't recall which one that is. I know it's done in older AE Starlites to make the network capable of using a tone dial.
I believe it's the large cap. at the front of the network marked D-68866A, but I want to be sure.
I'm attaching a photo of mine; it's on a Decotel component plate for a Chestphone I'm converting to AE components with a tone dial.
If anyone can assist, please I would be thankful; I'll also check my GTEP's under the practice for the Starlite set as I think it will have my answer.
Would I be correct in assuming the WA-1155A is the same as the WA-1154A, except that the spark suppressor cap. is absent from it; I've seen WA-1154A networks that were converted, but I never really gave much thought to it, and would like to know please.
Also, the AE dial I'm using has a static shield with a black lead, I know how it connects inside a AE80E, but I have no idea if I'd need it in a Decotel chestphone connected to a WA-1155 Network, or how it would connect, so any replies or comments I'd be most thankful for, please
Thank you,
Rototech99
I've never considered that you must remove the cap on a tone dial set. But don't consider that as the answer as I can't recall converting a set from dial to tone and I'm not much at electronics.
I have seen many times on the AE80E network board where Tone sets are missing one capacitor and a note is printed in that location to add a capacitor if converting the phone back to dial. I assumed the missing capacitor was just a cost reduction on networks for Touch Call phones.
On the older WA-1154-A Type networks I would assume the (rarely seen) WA-1155-A network is just missing that capacitor but haven't compared. I have one on my bench at the moment that I can give a once over and get back to you a bit later today.
The static lead can't hurt anything if connected to the same lead it is connected with on an 80E.
Terry
Thank you, I'd heard that the spark suppressor cap. would interfere with the tone dial, and was removed for tone sets, that's why I asked...
I'd seen it removed in AE Starlites with the WA-1154A network before, I'm just a bit foggy on it.
As to the static shield lead, I can check my 80E practice for the proper connection.
Thanks,
Rototech99
Sorry, these aren't easier to see. First is 1154 and second is 1155 with touchpad. The board components seem slightly rearranged on the 1155 though not the terminal numbering. You can see that the big red capacitor is missing next to the transformer. Interesting that on the 1155 the other two capacitors swapped places with each other and the large one changed from red to black but same # on it.
Terry
Dear AE Collector:
Thanks, but I'm still a bit confused on whether to remove the dial spark suppressor cap, and which one it would be on my WA-1154A networks...I thought it was the D-68866A in front of terminals 9 through 6 on the front of the network with a smaller cap. behind it was it....
So it's the cap. marked D-68849A that is the spark suppressor cap., correct? That has a yellow disc. cap. behind it?
Is that the one to remove for tone dialing?
Apologies for all the questions, but I want to be sure I remove the right one.
I'll download your pictures tomorrow, but if you could please clarify in the meantime, I would be thankful.
Rototech99
Quote from: RotoTech99 on February 14, 2018, 03:35:50 PM
So it's the cap. marked D-68849A that is the spark suppressor cap., correct? That has a yellow disc. cap. behind it?
Is that the one to remove for tone dialing?
All I can answer is that is the one missing on an 1155 network, The one beside the yellow disc. I don't know anything about the purpose of each one.
Why not leave it as is and see if it Works? You can clip that one out later if it seems to cause problems.
Terry
Dear AE Collector:
I really need a definite one way or the other answer, but I see what you mean for the most part.
I'll ask the technical people with Phoneco as well to see what they say.
I have an 80E tone set that has the cap. mentioned needed for rotary conversion so I'll look at that "D-number" as well. The text looked blurry but I think I can read it enough to tell.
I'd always assumed it was the the large one behind terminals 9-6 with the smaller one behind it.
Most grateful for your advice, thank you.
Rototech99
Speaking of 1154A networks, I found this today while "rummaging" in the garage! A whole box full of these networks with this little diagram in with it! Paul Vaverchak's work for payphones no doubt ;-)
Yes, that is interesting, but I'm trying to find out which cap. to remove to convert it for tone dial use..
I think think it's the D-64889A by the transformer with the yellow disc. cap. behind it, but I need to know for sure before I remove it.
Rototech99
Terry, is there anything connected to terminal 11 in the Touch-call set?
If not, then even if there is a capacitor/resistor between 1 and 11 for a rotary dial, wouldn't it then be out of the circuit -- even if still mounted to the network?
Nope. Nothing on 11 in the turquoise Starlite with very old AE Touchpad and nothing on 11 on a Touch Call 80E.
Terry
My GTE practices mentions a 1uf spark surpressor cap on rotary versions, omotted on tough calling versions
I don't know which networks are shown here, but 182A with Rotary Dial has 3 capacitors in the talking ckt.
C1 = 0.33 MF connects to terminal 11 and to one leg of R2 (100 ohms). R2 connects to terminal 1.
Dial pulse connects to 11 and 1.
C2 = 0.67 MF
C3 = 0.20 MF
The Touch Call shows only the 0.67 and 0.20.
473-220-201 Issue 2 Fig.2
473-220-202 Issue 2 Fig. 2
WA-1154-A
C1 = 0.33 uF. Connects to 11 and to resistor R2.
C2 = 1.5 uF
C3 = 0.33 uF
473-215-200 Issue 3/Fig. 2, Type 80
I did some checking, and I believe the D-68849A cap. is the one to remove to allow the WA-1154A to be used with a tone dial.
It's the same one used in a AE80E network for when it's equipped for rotary dialing.
It also says an equivalent can be used.
I can't type the value out as it appears, but it says the D-68849A is value .55 + 10% rated at 400VDC. The uf numbers mentioned are" Greek" to me, unfortunately.
It looks to be connected to terminals 11 and 23, it's a little hard to tell, but I think that's correct.
Rototech99
Quote from: poplar1 on February 14, 2018, 07:35:19 PM
WA-1154-A
C1 = 0.33 uF. Connects to 11 and to resistor R2.
C2 = 1.5 uF
C3 = 0.33 uF
473-215-200 Issue 3/Fig. 2, Type 80
Looking at a 182E Rotary and that (above) is what I'm seeing here as well.
A 182A Touch Call with WA-1155-A network has a 1.5 and likely a .33 though the markings are face down on it. So a .33 cap isn't present on this network with Touch Call.
Terry
When you say C1, are you referring to the D-68849A capacitor I said was marked .55 + 10% rated at 400VDC; It's connected as you noted on my network.
Can you include the capacitor D number along with the values when you reply, please?
Just saying C1 along with the values confuses me as I'm not good at reading capacitance values.
BTW: The "+" symbol was underlined on the capacitor, as I'm replying from my mobile phone, I can't reproduce that symbol on my keyboard.
Please let me know,
Rototech99
I'm not sure if I have the GTEP you mentioned, is it in GTEP CHB-120? Can you send a copy of it
The schematic does not show C1 going to 23.
I'm not good at following network traces, my apologies.
It looks to be connected between 11 and R2 as you mentioned...can you send a picture better clarifying what you mean, please.
I think my replies are reaching you delayed, so please check my replies to you; I think I responded to your earlier ones, but I just want to be sure so I get your info correctly.
Also, please reply to my post #17 in this thread .
Thanks,
Rototech99
My scanner is programmed to my laptop, but the laptop quit working. So other than faxing, I can't send the diagram. This is in CHB-120 issue 5 (1975) page 3 of 473-215-200 issue 3.
No part numbers are given.
It seems you could just find a spare terminal to use in place of 11. Then you wouldn't need to remove anything. In rotary 8O, line connects to 10, hookswitch closes 10 to 11, and dial connects to 11 and 1 (fig 2).
In 473-215-201, Issue 1, Fig. 9 (Touch Calling), there are no spade tipped wires connected to 11.
Line connects to 10, hookswitch closes 10 to D, touch calling unit connects to D. (Note 6 says terminal D is "located on the support spacer.")
Dear Poplar1:
On all the Starlites I've seen using a tone dial, the spark suppression cap. D-68849A or it's equivalent was removed, this was also true of the tone equipped 80e sets.
I was simply wanting clarification because I could not remember; I do recall being told the tone dial wouldn't function with the D-68849A or an equivalent in place.
As to the dial hookup, I've got a diagram with the connections I need to make, the diagram didn't show the cap., which is why I asked.
I get things confused sometimes for which I apologise where CRPF is concerned.
I'll ask Phoneco's technician about it as well, and maybe another CRPF member will reply that may've dealt with this before that has a clearer answer for me.
Thank you ,
Rototech99
I can see why they eliminated it. Western Electric did the same with the F-RR dial filter for Touch-Tone sets.
However, if it is not connected -- by not using the 11 terminal -- then I don't see why its being there matters.
Turtle Lake Telephone Co. catalog said, "Inside heavy parts can be removed at no extra charge"! (Bob was selling hand generators for $5 each on the following page)
My understanding has been that it won't allow the tone dial to function if it's in place, but if you're using a rotary dial, you're "good" with it in place.
But if you intend to use it with a tone dial, it has to be removed, and youd need a auxiliary terminal strip, or floating connectors to make the extra connections.
I found a diagram for the WA1154 network in GTEP 473-502-100 Iss. 2 from CHB-120 that shows what you've been describing to me, so I understand better now.
I forgot to mention why I was asking in the first place...I'm working on a Decotel Chestphone that I am adding a AE component plate and tone dial to; I recalled a capacitor (the dial spark suppressor had to be removed), but I couldn't recall which was it.
I have my answer now, and can do what I need, but as I don't have the terminal strip for the connections not made on the network, I'll have to use floating connectors for the 4 connections and insulate them.
I have the ATC diagram and the GTEP diagram, so wiring won't be a major issue.
I also keep some extra WA type networks in case I goof one up somehow.
The dial I'm using is an AE 112 ICTCU
Thanks,
Rototech99
While terminal 9 isn't considered spare, it really is since no one uses grounded ringing anymore. It is a dead terminal for splicing the yellow set cord lead to one side of the Ringer if applicable.
The green lead from the brass static shield goes together with the green touchpad lead, both in terminal 2.
Terry
I checked that after I asked about it, it goes on terminal 2, all right.
I forgot to mention why I m doing what I'm doing... I'm working on a ATC chestphone that has some AE components, but not all...it was a refurb by Phoneco or somebody with mixed parts.
I wanted to convert it to the proper AE components, and had a AE tone dial and AE component plate set up to accept a rotary dial. I recalled that the spark suppressor cap. is removed to allow the WA-1154A to work with a tone dial, and that 4 auxiliary connections by either a terminal strip or floating connectors had to be made.
I had trouble ID' ing the spark suppressor cap. #D-68849A until Poplar1got me thinking, and I got my manuals out. He was quoting terms I wasn't readily familiar with which got me flustered, but I figured out now from the documents I found.
Now that i've got it identified, I know it's the one to remove before I add the dial, and do the necssary wiring.
Once I get through, the Chestphone will have all AE components as it should, and I can take the Phoneco one and have the proper hook leads and AE network added, giving me a spare AE component plate.
I've got the diagrams for what I'm doing so that will not be trouble.
Perhaps the only tricky part will be finding connectors for the 4 floating connections.
Rototech99
After reviewing a few GSPs I found that the two spark suppression capacitors are out of circuit when wired for touch call (touch tone). The first capacitor is installed on the rotary dial itself and therefore is automatically removed from the circuit. The second capacitor is wired between 11 and 12, neither of which are in circuit for touch call per GSP 473-425-200.
Now with that said, there was also discussion of that component being removed on Touch Call sets. This is the factory saving a few cents/steps, for a field conversion, there is no point of removing this component from the circuit. Anything we do would be considered a field conversion.
I forgot to report that I found a Starlite wall 192 that was originally rotary but was converted to a Touch Call Phone in our shops and they saw no reason to remove the capacitor. So as previously reported, not really a concern. On with the project!
Terry
I used an AE Mini Network form a Styleline in a WE 202 and parted out the handset as well. Near the area of the dial and handset hooksitch there was a .33uf capacitor. I suspected that this is what this was . So now I am wondering if I should install this into the 202.
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edit
upon closer inspection (see image) and checking the Styleline Diagram at
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/wiring-diagrams/automatic-electric-1/12546-gsp-gtep-997-152-803-i1-may80-p27-styleline-rotary-wiring-mod-tci-pf/file (http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/wiring-diagrams/automatic-electric-1/12546-gsp-gtep-997-152-803-i1-may80-p27-styleline-rotary-wiring-mod-tci-pf/file)
this is in fact a 100ohm resistor in series with a .33uf capacitor.
I wired it to the 202 I hope correctly across the Red Line cord wire and Pink (purple in my case) network wire so it will suppress sparks on hookswitch contacts as well.
going to look for the mini styleline thread for more details there
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4951.msg204713#msg204713
Mark