I know it's not a "original" piece but, I think I want one. I would use it for one of my D1 or B1's or matey a stick on display and use on my desk. Do we know this person making these?
I would like your thoughts on this piece!...Thanks!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/162155763800
Benny
That is a very nice looking item. I guess for the woodworker, a blonde finish showing the detail is best. I would prefer an ebony translucent finish to match the phone but still show the grain and finger joints, but that's just me.
The seller put a lot of time and money into making these and it seems knowing what parts cost, this is a good deal, even though some phones were sacrificed for parts to make the subset. Nicely done, indeed. Putting a kleenax cover on a 302 base would be an equivalent and maybe a bit cheaper, though.
I get your point. I thought it would be handy to rotate a working display phone on. What would be the explanation for relocating the two wires in the phone?
Quote from: Pourme on August 07, 2016, 09:32:45 AM
I get your point. I thought it would be handy to rotate a working display phone on. What would be the explanation for relocating the two wires in the phone?
An anti-sidetone instrument, such as a 202 desk set or a 151AL candlestick has a four-conductor cord coded with colors black, red, green, and yellow, i.e. the same colors as originally and very often still today used on an RJ14 interface (6P4C) and in modular cords. So, it makes sense to use the 6P4C connector for connecting the instrument to its subset. Western Electric used this type of arrangement for 'portable telephone sets', meaning sets that could be used in multiple locations in a large residence or enterprise. They designed the four-prong plug (No. 283B) for this purpose in 1930 or so, the same plug that was used later as line plug.
So, there would have been a way to stay somewhat original in this design by using a four-prong plug instead of the modular connector, permitting the use of an original spade-terminated mounting cord with your desk stand.
Nevertheless, I have sold 202s with 6P4C connectors myself when using a modern vinyl mounting cord with conductors that can be crimped into a modular connector.
Doing this, of course requires a fixed coding scheme for the wire colors in the mounting cord. One would hope that this seller adhered to some conventions, but it is precisely the reason why he must supply a wiring diagram with his set.
Here is the wiring diagram I have used and supplied with my implementation of this method.
This shows a 684A or 634A subscriber set, or a 302 telephone base.
When using a 425 type network, the following color scheme for the terminals applies:
B --> black
R --> red
GN --> green
L2 --> yellow
Thanks for the information Unbeldi!...I'm always learning here.
So, with this information at hand, you could buy any decorative box, wooden or not, and place a network and a ringer inside and drill some holes for the jacks and sound holes for the ringer. I bet you can buy very nice boxes at your local art&craft store a lot cheaper than ordering this.
I do have several 302's that would be candidates for this process. I will give it some serious thought.
Again, Thanks!
Quote from: Pourme on August 07, 2016, 11:01:49 AM
I do have several 302's that would be candidates for this process. I will give it some serious thought.
Forum member kleenax makes black plastic covers that convert a 302 base into a nice looking subset (
"Western Electric 302 subset cover (converts 302 base to subset)". They sell, or have sold, for around $25 the last time I bought one some time ago. He does not have any on eBay right now but if you are interested in going that route, you could send him a PM or contact him through his company's web site: http://telephonecreations.com/index.htm
Ok...I did a Google search on Kleenax Sublet Boxes and you can imagine what I got. I wondered how one makes a 302 adapted subset look presentable. I will investigate that as I could use a few working subsets.
Thanks!
Quote from: Pourme on August 07, 2016, 01:21:06 PM
Ok...I did a Google search on Kleenax Sublet Boxes and you can imagine what I got. I wondered how one makes a 302 adapted subset look presentable. I will investigate that as I could use a few working subsets.
Thanks!
Yes, I'm sure you got search got a lot of tissue results along with the top question "Did you mean: Kleenex Subset Boxes."
Back in 2012, Ray told the story (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2144.msg69486#msg69486) of when and how he came up with that handle and yes, it is unique.
Best way to contact him is by using the email address given at the bottom of his web site home page, that address is also given in the signature line of all his forum posts. -- http://telephonecreations.com/
EDIT: Found a topic about the covers and this image of a black one covering a 302 base for a 202 D1.
Click the image to get the post.(http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5366.0;attach=70847;image) (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5366.msg65720#msg65720)
I did PM him and he said he would be restocked in about 2 weeks...Thanks for the info. I will go in that direction.
The base of a 302 telephone is entirely equivalent electrically to a 684 subset, and Ray's covers do make for a great way to make a subset. The nice thing about using a 302 base is that the 302 base has feet. That means that you can set it on a piece of furniture and not have it scratch. A genuine 684 subset, on the other hand, has no feet because those are meant to be permanently screwed to a wall. So, the 302 base is a great way to go and even more portable than screwing something to a wall.
I have at least 2 302's with the cracking, shrinking cases. I would love to use them as subsets, & yield some spare parts to boot. This is prefect. Now I have a plan. This will cost less than the hybrid deal and net me 2 usable, nice looking subsets!...
I spent some time today experimenting with two of my 302's. I managed to convert them into working subsets! Now I'm just waiting to order the covers from Kleenax. The information and help from this forum and the members is tremendous!
Thanks so much!
Benny
The subset mentioned in the first post in this thread; seems to be a well made piece of woodwork.
Using a 425 network as a subset, and only 4 wires to the desk stand will not be possible if you modify the circuit, e.g. by using only one half of the splitted primary winding.
This has been done, and works, but how well?
If you modify the desk stand, and use 5 cords, it will be good as a 500 telephone.
Look at this thread: http://tinyurl.com/he7v95w (http://tinyurl.com/he7v95w)
dsk
Quote from: dsk on August 09, 2016, 04:31:51 PM
The subset mentioned in the first post in this thread; seems to be a well made piece of woodwork.
Using a 425 network as a subset, and only 4 wires to the desk stand will not be possible if you modify the circuit, e.g. by using only one half of the splitted primary winding.
This has been done, and works, but how well?
If you modify the desk stand, and use 5 cords, it will be good as a 500 telephone.
Look at this thread: http://tinyurl.com/he7v95w (http://tinyurl.com/he7v95w)
dsk
Half of the gain of the 500 set came from mechanical aspects of the handset, so without that nothing can be as 'good'. 'Good' is relative anyhow.
Furthermore, the next major improvement in the 500 set was the electrical efficiency and flat response curve of the T1 and U1 transducers, being far superior to all older elements.
The electrical balance of the 500 circuit is also affected by not having the exact impedance characteristic of the U1 receiver when using other transducers.
So, with mismatched components, there isn't much benefit left from the 500 network over the predecessor.
What is left is the line balancing from the two-stage varistor damping. The second stage is probably thrown off slightly with the receiver mismatch.
Indeed, one half of the primary side of the induction coil is unused in a four-conductor mounting arrangement with a 425 network.
Turns out this is actually beneficial when connecting old, less efficient transducers, as it slightly increases audio volume. Since human hearing has a logarithmic response, the electrical power needs to be doubled to achieve a noticeable change in volume. This is in fact achieved when the transformation ratio is increased, i.e. the primary winding reduced to one half.
So, it works very well for old instruments, and it has the benefit that one can maintain originality by using the original mounting cords !
Bell Labs and WECo invested much effort into matching operating conditions with instruments variations, because it was difficult to find the right balance of electrical conditions on a line to be good for signaling (dialing) as well as for transmission (audio). The 500 sets did not make it any easier, actually. It greatly extended the range for signaling, eliminated local batteries on long lines, but the increased performance of the handset had to be compensated on short loops with auto-balancing to avoid excessive sidetone.
It appears that they in general preferred to pair old elements with old induction coil hybrids, while using T1 and U1 with 425-type network. However, for intermediate conditions, U1 and/or T1 elements could be used with old subsets (—> F4 handset). We're not finding 202-type sets with four-conductor cords to 425 networks.
I guess you are right all the way. I did modify an AE mini network (more job than expected) and got the primary at one side.
Ill guess that would be a way to do it. Ended up with this schematics:
dsk