I'll be the new owner of a 5302

[benkeys]

I will be the owner of a nice 5302 in a few days. As I won the bid for one i've been watching for 2 weeks. Luckily nobody bid on it last week so it was re-listed. I watched it all week and nobody else made a move on it. I got it for a total of 20.29, which is less than I paid for my 1960's 500. The seller states it was designed for a party line, which is why it is marked with a "P", however after doing a bit reading up, It appears the 5300 models for party lines were actually marked 5304. If it is actually a "04" does it make it any more scarce than the "02" models and are there any major differences? Also is there a way to tell if it is an "04" since these were produced out of pre-existing parts and not brand new parts?   http://www.ebay.com/itm/151454538199...

[poplar1]

It appears to be a 5304C: B3A ringer (with 4 wires), 101B induction coil (has M terminal), L-shaped terminal block.

The 304 and 5304 were used for certain 2-party lines, those which required "tip party identification" in order to bill the correct party. The 302 and 5302 could be used on individual lines, but also on certain types of party lines--2 party selective (where no tip party ID was required), or multi-party lines with coded ringing (different ringing patterns to indicate which party was desired).

[Phonesrfun]

I don't think a 5304 is any more valuable than a 5302, despite the fact that there are undoubtedly fewer of them.  (My own opinion).  I think the  304 and 5304 are just variations of the 302 and 5302 that most non-phone folks don't even know about.  I also think its interesting that there wasn't a 352, at least not in general production.  For the wall phone, they went right to a 354, since the 354 can be used in straight private line service as well as party line service.

[andre_janew]

I suspect that party line phones may be more common than private line phones.  Back when party lines existed, you could get phone service cheaper by subscribing to a party line.  The 5304 could be more common than the 5302.  By the way, I have a 5306 for sale on eBay.  Please check it out.

[poplar1]

Just to clarify, the 5302 is by far the most common 5300-series set. It could also be used on party-lines, with divided ringing (tip to ground or ring to ground), for 2 parties with selective ringing, or 4 or more parties with semi-selective ringing; that's why it has a 3-conductor cord.

The 5304 and 5306 are not as common: the 5304 was typically used only on 2-party message rate lines, only in cities like St. Louis, Chicago, or New York where each call was billed whether on individual lines or party lines. (There were some flat rate lines in those places, but they were very expensive.)

The 5306, with cold cathode tube, was used only where the central office supported superimposed ringing for 4-party selective or 8-party semi-selective lines.

[benkeys]

 I got it today. It has a 101B network, B3A ringer and 5H dial. So it is in fact a 5304. The base, network, and dial are all dated 1952. The ringer is dated 1940, transmitter dated 1948 receiver dated 1953. Couldn't find a date on the handset. Now there is a slight problem, it will call out but will not allow the line to ring when a call comes in. It goes straight to my voice mail. Does someone have a wiring diagram? I'm guessing I need to move the right wires around? I'll take some clear pictures of the insides either tomorrow or the next day.

[Phonesrfun]

For a 304 with that ringer it needs to be wired for bridged ringing as follows:

Ringer wires:
Red to L1
Slate/red to terminal E
Solid slate also to terminal E
Black to terminal K

Capacitor wires (Ringer section of dual capacitor)
Yellow to L2
Slate to terminal K

You can also go to the TCI library and get the wiring diagram for the 304/5304 here:

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/wiring-diagrams/western-electric/doc_details/2172-300-series-desk-telephones-354-tl

[unbeldi]

Features and circuit discussion:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5720.msg126771#msg126771

[benkeys]

I believe I wired it according to the instructions and diagram but it does not do anything wired like that. There is no E terminal, as the schematic states that is for the 354 model and the GND terminal is the same terminal in the 304 model. Now when I got it the ring and tip were wired between L1 and GND to get a dial tone and dial out. I took some pictures of how I have it currently wired. Now I don't know if this will make a difference, but the ringer was originally punched with a B1A marking but stamped over with a B3A marking and then also stamped B3A on the coils. I didn't notice that until last night when attempting to wire it per a schematic for a B2A ringer. Lastly, what are the odds of that capacitor being bad? If i know a mfd rating for it, I can test it with my multimeter.

[unbeldi]

There is no E terminal in a 5304.  Or a 304 for that matter.

How many leads are coming out of the ringer?
The change in ringer markings means it was remanufactured at the shops and changed from a B1A two-wire ringer to a B3A. The B3A is a low-impedance ringer, and was used with an electron tube on 4- or 8-party lines. It has a black and red wire just like the B1A.  A proper 5304 should have a B2A with four wires.  The B3A would have been used in a 306 or 5306 telephone, but that would have used a 101A induction coil.  So for some reason someone changed the ringer.

Before suspecting anything broken, please do make sure the wiring is correct. Since you probably only have a two-wire ringer you ignore the slate-red and slate ringer wires in the 304 diagrams.

[benkeys]

Figured it out. I had the red/green wire in the wrong spot. I mistook it for the slate/red wire. I had it on the GND terminal instead of the L2 terminal. It now rings, but its a bit quiet compared to my 500 ringer. Is that just the way the B3A ringer sounds or is there something I can do to make it louder? Thank you everyone for the help. Now I just gotta figure out the best way to remove the stickers off of the side of the phone without damaging the finish. Any suggestions?

[unbeldi]

Figured it out. I had the red/green wire in the wrong spot. I mistook it for the slate/red wire. I had it on the GND terminal instead of the L2 terminal. It now rings, but its a bit quiet compared to my 500 ringer. Is that just the way the B3A ringer sounds or is there something I can do to make it louder? Thank you everyone for the help.

What kind of line are you connecting it to?  Many lines today, especially analog telephone adapters in CATV modems, don't deliver the 90V ringing signal anymore.

You can try to adjust the rotation of the gongs, one of them is adjustable from the underside already. This was a modification from the 300-series introduced in the 5300s.  You may also want to check the bias setting of the ringer; there is a little spring between the two coils that has a low, medium, and high setting.

[benkeys]

I have Time Warner phone. I adjusted the bias adjustment to the highest setting and moved the gongs around a bit. It got a bit better, but I need to play around with them a bit more to get the optimum setting. Both are adjustable by spinning them inwards. I just have to realize it's not going to sound the same as my 500.

[poplar1]

When WE repair shop modified sets with B3A ringers for use on individual lines, they used a 1.0 uF capacitor rather than the 0.5 found in 302s/5302s or 304s/5304s. So you might want to add another 0.5 uF capacitor in parallel with the yellow and slate capacitor leads, or substitute a 1.0 uF for the existing ringing capacitor.

[benkeys]

I know putting caps in parallel will reduce their value, but what will doing that achieve?