New Guy Here with some basic WE 500 questions

[HobieSport]

Howdy all,

I hope there is room for a newbie here.  I don't have any expertize to offer but do have enthusiasm, so I'll probably just be a lurker (the good kind) here mostly, but I do have some questions for now before I get my first couple of phones.

I'd like to start with a classic basic black WE 500 and use it as my actual main phone (with a regular new phone for modern functions when needed) so it needs to be in good running condition.

I grew up with a WE 540 and a WE 500 and for family sentimental reasons am considering a 1954 or a 1957.

Here's my first question:  I found a 1957 500 on Ebay in good condition for about $50, but the seller says it is "An ITT (not ATT) built with a WE patent".  Does that mean it's not a real Western Electric?  Might it be inferior?  I'm not so concerned about it's value as a collectible; as about it's quality as a functioning phone.  Should I hold out for a genuine Western Electric or is there even a difference?

My second question is, since this will be my main working phone, and actual function is more of a concern than sentiment, should I be looking at different years for a Western Electric 500 other than 1954 or 1957? Something newer?  Anything will do for me as long as it's basic and classic and rotary, and any color will do as long as it is black.  I tend to like common classic things much as I appreciate rarity.

For example, there are these:

http://www.oldphones.com/servlet/Detail?no=67

and:

http://www.oldphones.com/servlet/Detail?no=44

I don't know what years they are made but I'll ask.

But not to worry, for my second phone I'll get something more fun.  Maybe a basic 340 or something more unique.  But again, it has to be fully functional.  And look cool, of course...

Well, I'll get out of your hair.  Any info or advice by anyone much appreciated.  I'll get back to lurking and researching now.

Thanks,

-Matt
Mendocino, CA

[BDM]

Welcome Matt. Yes, ITT built 500 series phones. In the early 50, W.E./AT&T/Bell released the patent rights for use by the current industry of the time. This allowed for a standard to be set in the industry. Anyhow, I cannot comment on the quality. I know Kellogg Stromberg-Carlson and ITT 500 series are very similar. With many parts interchanging such as T1 capsules. I seem to remember the ITT sets are have the least interchangeability of the 500 series sets. I'm no expert in these sets, but that sums it up fairly well. Dennis will be able to elaborate further.

Now, as far as the "should I own a W.E. set" or not. I say yes. W.E. 500 sets are very common and easy/cheap to buy. I say why not? I'm a W.E. man at heart anyhow

[benhutcherson]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

ITT made licensed copies of the 500 series telephones. Their copies were just that-parts are even directly interchangeable between Western Electric and ITT phones.

With that said, however, ITT telephones have always felt to me much less expensive and of lower quality. The quality of fit and finish, to me, isn't on par with WE-made set.

If I were you, I would definitely hold out for a genuine WE telephone.

By the way, the older telephones generally weigh more, and are overall much nicer to use than the later ones, in my experience. Not too long ago, I kept a black 500 from '55 on my desk and used it every day.

There are some things you should watch out for that make the '50s telephones really desirable:

1. Be sure you're getting one with suede leather feet. The leather grips the table/desk the phone is sitting on much better during dialing, making these easier to dial(no slipping).

2. Black telephones up through the '60s had a metal finger wheel paired a #7 dial. I personally find the metal finger wheel very desirable.

3. Up through the '60s, black telephones also had G1 handsets, which are made out of a solid chunk of Bakelite. I also prefer these over the later plastic handsets, although they are considerably heavier. Sometimes, these will have thermoplastic caps, which aren't as desirable(and very difficult to remove).

Good luck in you're search. Telephones from the mid to late '50s are relatively easy to find. Just watch out for when you really get hooked, and have to have the earliest 500 set possible(my oldest is '52s, and I'm constantly on the search for one older).

[bingster]

Hiya, Matt, and welcome to the forum!

I'm with BDM on getting a Western Electric 500.  When it comes to phones from the 1930s and 40s, it's not so important to me to have Western Electric, because the phones built by other manufacturers were completely different, and each manufacturer's phones had their own unique style.  But if you're going to get a 500, you may as well get the genuine article, since they're so readily available, and are much, much less expensive than the ITT available on the site you linked to.  

As far as one year being better than another, that's not really an issue, and one year vs. another is purely a personal choice.  There's not much difference in quality until you get to the modular phones of the 1970s.  Each collector has his own preferences in which 500 to choose.  The oldest 500s, for example have hardwired cords, are made of a unique soft plastic, and have leather feet.  Those are the ones I go for.  Other people have different desires.  

There's really not much that can go wrong with a 500, except for incorrect wiring by a tinkering owner.  Once you make sure the wires are connected properly, the phone will probably last the rest of your life.

[McHeath]

Welcome!  Good questions and it looks like my cohorts have been doing their jobs answering them.  (double rations for everyone!!)  

I would also go for the genuine Western Electric 500, why have a knockoff when you can easily get the real McCoy?  The black ones made in the 50's with the little leather feet, solid bakelite handset, and metal fingerwheel (the actual part you dial) are way cool and have oodles of character.  My wife has a nice 1954 model on her desk as her daily driver, and I just picked up a 1951 model for myself.  The old ones will probably work just fine, I've yet to encounter one that did not work, these phones are like cockroaches and can't be killed!

What's a fair price?  I paid $25 for my wifes 54' model, it was dirty as all git out and needed lots of elbow grease to get it up to snuff.  I've seen really nice ones for 30 to 40 that look pretty clean, but there are the occasional scores for much less.  The web sites that sell them all cleaned up and with guarantees might also be a way to go, but they will of course want more.  

Here is one online guy I know of:
http://www.ericofon.com/catalog/classic2/we500.htm

You've found some of the others, and of course E-bay can be your friend.

[HobieSport]

Thanks everyone for the welcome and good clear advice.  

So I'm looking for a genuine older WE 500 with suede feet and metal dial.  I like things heavy and solid. Something about these new little throw away cell phones with forty billion micro electronic features really bugs me.  I don't even like remote household phones.  But not to be a hypocrite, I am thankful for computers.

I want a phone to be a phone and sit solidly on my desk and say; "I am a telephone".  I long to dial again, and hear the ring of real bells.  For me it's not nostalgia, though I do like history, and in this age of micro electronics I prefer things to be bulkier and more mechanical and long lasting.

Now all I need is a laptop computer about the size of a piano...

I'll let you all know what I find for a basic beginners functional WE 500.  Thanks for all the tips and leads.

So... another question:  Does anyone actually have a WE 520?  I guess what I like about the 520 is that its' form follows function.  And thus it just looks so incredibly cool...

-Matt

[Mark Stevens]

I don't have any expertize to offer but do have enthusiasm, so I'll probably just be a lurker (the good kind) here mostly, but I do have some questions for now before I get my first couple of phones.

I won't add anything helpful, but must say that, since you've made your first post, no more lurking will be allowed!  You're certainly as qualified to post in the forum as I, and we won't even mention Dan/Panther or Bill Cahill... 
Welcome!

[Dan/Panther]

Welcome Matt, If you are like me you'll get hooked on this hobby very quickly.
Hang around, ask lots of questions, I guarantee you'll learn a lot fast.
Remember, the only dumb question is the one you didn't ask.


As far as Marks statement,  If you read it closely I will agree he's two thirds correct.

Dan/Panther

[Bill Cahill]

  Yes, I agree. Mark is two thirds right. I am an authority to listen to. Ignore dip pan  Dan.  Welcome....
Bill Cahill 

[Dan/Panther]

There defineately is a phlethera of knowledge on this forum, even if only in the minds of some.
you must check out the links posted by BDM, in another thread. Very good beginner info to be found there.
Here is the link...

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=135.0

D/P (Dan/Panther) not to be confused with some other member Mark refers to, and the same for Pink Princess owner Bill Cahill.
He made me promise I wouldn't tell anyone, but all is fair in love, and war.

BTW Mark, Just wondered if those stars come in Pink ?

[Bill Cahill]

Yeh, Mark. That's Dan's favorite color. It matches his pink bedspread with pink, and, yellow flowers, and, yellow window curtains, not to forget  the pink bed curtain...... 

Dan, are you REALLY going to paint your oak box Chartreuse??

Bill Cahill