News:

"The phone is a remarkably complex, simple device,
and very rarely ever needs repairs, once you fix them." - Dan/Panther

Main Menu

WE 202 Network?

Started by Dave Beck, February 04, 2014, 02:30:02 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

sjt1803

#15
I just got a d1 phone, and really don't need another bell to ring in the house.
So for me, a network solution was best, not a complete subset. I thought about an external network but then looked into what I could install in the phone to accomplish this.
I found a altered schematic by oldphoneguy for the D1. I slightly modified the values of components and for the time being left out the dial filter but it works great. No DC to the receiver, no Pops and it has clear sound. (you will notice 2- 1mf caps in parallel as a sub for 2.2mf and 100ohm 1watt for 150ohm) I also modified the drawing to show the values suggested.

Before any purists jump in, all of these changes applied here are fully reversible,
no original wiring or components have been altered. Simply removing these added parts and rewiring the phone will allow it to be connected to a subset.


There are a total of 4 additions including 1 jumper, plus a few wires that need to be moved to different terminals.

The schematic is below, along with my implementation in my phone, the final photo shows how I preserved the phone cord using a modified surface mount phone jack.
Simply drill a hole at the far end and one at the top install a bolt&nut to hold the cable in place and connect to socket.



Dave Beck

I have decided to hook my 202 to the 495 subset I just finished, so no mini network, and will stay original.
Dave Beck

sjt1803

#17
By original you mean your going to paint wood subset with cowbells black?

Doug Rose

Would you really think he would paint this black??
Kidphone

sjt1803

#19
Doug
No I don't , just making a little point about where one draws the line on "original"
I think it looks great like that.  I have no problem with it, might try to find one myself.
However would one have been likely to find this looking like that connected to a D1
in 1936?

Sargeguy

If I had that in my collection I would not hesitate to repaint it black and hook it up to a 151-AL or D-1.  I have stripped and re-painted wooden phones that were painted black.   I prefer historical accuracy over appearances, but then again I like black so there really isn't any trade-off.  Take this walnut 295BP for example.  The shellac was flaking off and taking the paint with it so I stripped all the shellac and a few coats of black Krylon and a little sanding and it looks pretty good.  Those patent dates really "pop" as the kids say.
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

sjt1803

Greg,
I like that look as well, If I was displaying it and not using it I would do that as well.
If on the other hand I was going to use it daily, I might opt for the finished wood.


Sargeguy

#22
Quote from: sjt1803 on February 16, 2014, 12:37:59 AM
Greg,
I like that look as well, If I was displaying it and not using it I would do that as well.
If on the other hand I was going to use it daily, I might opt for the finished wood.



Well, when he gets a few more examples of older 295As in wood, he can always paint it.  These things had shellac on them already when painted. It's not as if he stripped a perfectly nice 485BP , or removed the cowbells to sell them for a profit and replaced them with standard gongs or anything like that which would destroy the pieces historical integrity.

I just bought this 495BP two minutes ago. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141189853640

Look at the green TELCO stamp on the back, the stamps on the gomgs, and the fact that the interior is painted as well.  There is no way I would have it any other way.   
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

sjt1803

I agree, there is no way I would alter that.

poplar1

#24
The fact that Sargeguy's 495BP is painted black inside, including under the original label, shows that not all black paint was done as part of a conversion or refurbishing operation. No doubt they didn't use walnut when originally manufacturing any wood device that was to be painted.

There doesn't seem to be any change in code number suffixes when 300K wood subsets were changed from shellacked wood finish to black. So I'm doubtful that "BP" means "Black Paint."

Cabinet makers were once some of the highest paid (high tech?) workers in the WE factory. In the WE repair shops, on the other hand, refurbishing wood subsets was one of the tasks of at least one entry level employee here in Atlanta. It was easier and cheaper to slap on a coat of black paint than to refinish the original oak or walnut.

The fact that so many 495BPs have black paint over shellacked oak or walnut may have something to do with the fact that 434BPs and 495BPs were being issued so late, rather than because "if it's a 495BP it has to be black." Since there was no equivalent metal (634) or Bakelite cover(684) subset with cow gongs, there continued to be a demand for 495BPs and 434BPs, both of which had exposed gongs which are too large to fit inside a 684 or 634. The lower pitch of the gongs was more easily heard by people with hearing loss.

My friend's grandmother was still leasing a 151-AL in the 1960s. It might have been connected to a 495BP. She used an old style hearing aid with the transmitter worn on her chest. When she got a call, she would hold the 706A receiver up to the hearing aid transmitter. She wouldn't let the phone man replace her 151-AL, though, because she needed the separate transmitter and receiver in order to keep using her old hearing aid.

Here are some photos of  a 295S that was originally black, a refurbished 300K (black paint over shellacked oak), and a 434BP. (The 295S was converted to a 295A but not recoded.)
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Sargeguy

I'm sure "BP" doesn't stand for anything, but what it means is another story.  I had thought it signified conversion to anti-side tone, but that does not seem to be the case.  It does appear that the BP designation is given after a refurb in which the box is painted black and cowbells were added.  If the wiring was updated to antisidetone, it became a 4XX, if not it remained a 2XX.  This process took place after WE/ABT was painting everything black, so that is why I think a 495BP needs to be black to be "correct" I would say that BP referred to the cowbells but I think I have seen a 634 BP. 

What is the date on the wiring diagram of your 295S?

Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

poplar1

The diagram isn't dated. It says only

P-104491      295-S & Y    Issue - 1

Since the "catch" is a screw rather than a lock, and also because of the patent label, it was made in 1907 or later. I don't know how to narrow down the exact date. Seller had three of these that she was selling as NOS. It's not new, but in mint condition just the same.

It seems that early on there was an option of walnut, oak or black even for the same item.
While it's true that gongs, transmitters, hooks, etc. were painted black on new sets by the 1920s, still at that time the wood was not painted on most sets that had painted metal parts.

The 1929 WE Catalog #7 shows 1317 sets with black trim, but some gongs sold separately are still nickel plated.

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

poplar1

#27
Quote from: Sargeguy on February 16, 2014, 10:53:19 AM
I'm sure "BP" doesn't stand for anything, but what it means is another story.  I had thought it signified conversion to anti-side tone, but that does not seem to be the case.  It does appear that the BP designation is given after a refurb in which the box is painted black and cowbells were added.  If the wiring was updated to antisidetone, it became a 4XX, if not it remained a 2XX.  This process took place after WE/ABT was painting everything black, so that is why I think a 495BP needs to be black to be "correct" I would say that BP referred to the cowbells but I think I have seen a 634 BP. 

What is the date on the wiring diagram of your 295S?



The 434BP, which is a converted 334-type, also has cow bells. But it was already black before being converted. Although 100 is usually added for anti-sidetone, both the 334 and 295 use 4xx to indicate conversion to anti-sidetone.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291061188013
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Sargeguy

It seems to me that the "factory painted" wooden equipment, by which I mean those that have the interior and back painted, and have a decal placed over the paint, almost always feature the Hawthorne script which started in 1913? or so, maybe later?  Sets that remained in service would have remained unpainted, as would sets that were re-issued.  I think the majority of the sloppier overpaints, in which the interior and back were left unpainted and the decals were painted over, was done in the 30s.  These conversions to BP were done when?  Late 1910s-early 1920s?
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409