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Cross connection wiring frustration!

Started by Babybearjs, July 23, 2021, 04:16:55 AM

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 >:( Oh am getting mad.... I recently was able to get my phone numbers in sequence and am having to reverse the line layout at the 66 blocks and keep making stupid mistakes. My main line, 377-2097 I've had for 9 years. last month, I re-energized my third line and CenturyLink gave me 377-2096.... well, to my surprise I was able to get the line established and tried to get 377-2098, but they won't let me have it... Anyway, I'm changing the line layout on the phones at all locations so the extensions are all in sequence. right now, my lines are coming in as line 1: 2097  Line 2: OFF  Liner 3: 2096. so, I'm having to dickens of a time having to cross connect stations so that the lines are in order. I keep wanting to connect my CID outlets to line 3 instead of line 1 and its frustrating me.. having to pull the cross connect off several times and redoing them correctly... now, I see why I never would have made it as a tech! its maddening when you have CID on your primary line and you want to change the assignment from button #1 to Button #2 on all the phones and get the CID working on the right line as well... on my phone jacks in several rooms I have a separate jack just for the CID unit so I don't have to have it wired directly into the phone itself. wish me luck.... hopefully, this will all fall into place once I get my mind working right.... so frustrating!


Why didn't you just change wires at the NI instead of rewiring your blocks?
It's so much easier that way.
Two or three pair and your done.


 :D its kind of like this, I have a combination of phones in use, 544, 564, 464's.... plus I have CID on my primary line, which is now line 2 on my phones. some phone have the CID, others don't... while I was rewiring the individual extensions I started to really look at my work from 2 years ago and am wondering if I should pull everything apart and start over... so many changed in the last 2 years... plus I came across some mistakes I made when I was originally setting up the system and had to stop and adjust that mess... I daisy chained my 25 pair cable across 10 #66 blocks and at one of the blocks I accidently cut the wire instead of daisy chaining it and I  am regretting that mistake now... plus I really have to clean up all my wiring... I'm having to make splices where I didn't have them before and use those pesky 3M connectors... all in all, it keeps me busy and out of trouble... the hard part is remembering where things connect not to mention constantly mislaying my tools and glasses! crazy me! anyway, its all fixed now... all I have to do now is connect the buzzer leads from the bedroom phone for signaling. I could have just changed the NID connections, but that would have been too easy... 


You really need to read up on how to wire for telephone systems.
Because you don't seem to understand the basics of proper wiring of telephone systems thus your always asking bizarre questions regarding wiring, how to connect etc.

I used a Bell system manual on key systems to be my guide when I worked my first system.
I've learned how to run station cables and how to correctly terminate on punch blocks, even using proper cross connect wire from station blocks to KSU block.

It's quite simple, start at the top of the system block using the standard color code of the wires punch each onto a 66 type block.
I used B350s for my KSU block. Then from that using cross connect or loose 25 pair and punched from that to each station block using 66M125 blocks.
Then each station cable from each station block to each station, terminated with a AMP champ connector for 25 pair cable. Then I connected the telephone station via the plug.
Then went to the next station and did the same.
If your using 400 type sets I recamend using a 6625E that you punch the cable down on then you can use cross connect wires to an appropriate termination block used for spade ended cords, connect each wire from the E block and via the cross connect wires and your done.

No more quests work as to what pair went to where and how it was connected.

Sounds complicated, but that seems to be your grove.
The crazier the better.
Using multiples of cat 5 or cat 6 with RJ45 connectors, plugs and assorted apparatus.

That is why they came out with 25 pair cable and ribbon connectors for the telephone set to the actual KSU. One plug and done.


Let me add, by using cross connect wire leaving a loop, if a problem should arise you can simply pull a cross connect wire from the station block to aid in isolation of the affected station.

That's a system I've used and it's so much easier in finding a issue such as an open pair or miss wired pair.

Your system using Cat wire with 4 pair is ok, but then using so many pairs on the same block for telephone sets just gets confusing, and frustrating to diagnose a problem.

And let's face it problems will arise using proper paired cable as in 25 pair, or Cat5 4 pair.
Just using 25 pair properly terminated then using cross connect will make it a bit easier to find a problem.

Remember to leave a loop, use a mushroom to run the wires over or under before punching down again leave slack loop so if you need to pull a lead or pair you still have some extra to re-terminate the wires.

If you don't have shrooms get some. Or use something like that, that will enable you to run a group or single lead over or under to help keep leads all nice and tidy.

Instead of running wires from point A to point B
Using a shroom allows for space as a guide from block to block or block to Jack.
Just looks much neater in the end.

I wish I had digital shots of my system I put in my last house. It looked nice with everything done proper and neat.
And yes on occasion I had issues with a station or two, and leaving slack loops was easy to isolate isses by pair, repair and done.

My old way was much like the way your doing it, not very neat and hard as heck to locate problems.

A tip, don't use a wire that the gauge exseeds 22 or you will spread the legs on a 66 block So it will not terminate the wire properly.
And that's a sure fire problem in the future. That will end up driving you nuts!



oh no, I have mushroom posts... and they get used... the frustrating part is when most of the punching are ok, and then at one 66 block you accidently changed the blade from seating to cutting and didn't notice it until it was too late... that's what happened 2 years ago when I was initially wiring the system... so, I used the next terminal on the block and now that terminal is what I need to make changes and its occupied. no big deal, just had to pull the leads out and splice some wires together to make the adjustments... honestly, how todays techs can keep up with changes is beyond me... no wonder phone service is expensive... but, with all the additions I made in the last 2 years the cross connects are getting really messy and I really didn't leave room for expansion and additions... I added the bank of 3 208 KTUs and that is a mess in itself because you have to isolate the ICM lines as well as interface with the 207 KTU and add the TO connections to the 212 KTU... I had bought some 6 X 12 half 66 blocks thinking I have enough, but then I want to add features or need power points for accessories and discover that I didn't plan out the system they way its all come together... being able to power remote relays and signaling systems after the fact makes it hard to make good changes... for instance. I discovered that I could have used 2 pair station cable from the 208 KTU's instead of regular cross connect wire... that way you can trace the wiring easier. is used red/white cross connect wire and now I have a field of wire that is hard to trace because its all the same color scheme. so now, I have to sit down and redesign stuff to make it easier to trace and troubleshoot. the good part about this is... everything is working right, so I must be doing something right! trying to futureproof the phone system. LOL! hey, it keeps me busy!


Always check your blade position!
If anything default back to seat only then if you have to go back and cut, that's far better than having to redo cross connects.

To protect the blade I always set mine to seat when I take a break. That way if I should drop it im not dulling the cutter.


which reminds me, I do have to order some new blades for mine.... the frustrating part is that sometimes I can get the whole cutter for the same price as the blade... just like lighting, replacement glass is the same price as the whole fixture... go figure! crazy world!


Use a whet stone to put an edge on your blade.
Far cheaper than buying new blades.
Just push at the same angle a couple strokes and your done.


ahhh... thank you! I have one in my tool box, I just have to dig it out....


Its important to follow the angle of the blade.


so I found out... frustrating when you go to punch a connection and the wire doesn't cut through.... I will dig out the wet stone and get that tip sharpened...


Actually it's Whet stone. I use a smaller double sided diamond stone, with a handle. It works good for knifes and small blades.
Punch tips included. I paid about $28.00 for mine about 10 years ago, harbor freight has some smaller ones pretty cheap. They do have pretty good reviews.
Nice thing about diamond stones is they really don't wear out and simple to clean.
Just don't use for soft metals or they could clog the stone, aluminium is a definite no.


thanks! hope you are having a nice summer.... so, did the phones I sent you work out for you? I have a bit of a 564 beige surplus if you need any... I am looking at rewiring some of my system as I want to expand the capabilities as well as just clean up the wiring. I need to invest in some more ty-wraps and make my system more tech friendly! I have a 66B3-25 wiring block and 66B4-50 that I'm thinking of using in my scheme... by going over to the 66B3-25 blocks, I gain 2 more punching's and the blocks are still split. I'm still planning it out.  I kind of planned out an "Options" block, but never got around to fully implementing it. On my PSU, I have 2 10VAC lines. 1 for the lamps in the system and the other is dedicated to my doorbell system which is wired into the system. I also have my electric fireplace equipped with a 24 volt relay and it runs off the 18VAC signal line in my phone system. (that's why I love this setup so much, endless possibilities...) when I added the #208 KTU array, I was 3 wires short, and had to add a 3 pair cable to finish the hookup. 25 pair just doesn't cover everything... Oh well... I got a full spool of 2 pair UF cable from my neighbor and kind of started to use that... the jacket on this stuff is like 1/4" tubing for an drip irrigation system... so its stiff and hassle to work with... have you ever used it before? write me back if you are interested in the 564's... that color must have been really popular next to black back in the day. hope you are enjoying the summer and keeping busy! talk to you later.


See this is the problem you have, your mixing telephone wire with irrigation wires.
Why are you using underground feeder cable?

Haven't you had enough of wet wires and key systems?

You went through this crap a few years ago, every one said use home runs no splices.
Get the proper cable and live with it.

Your three wires short on what?
If you used standard 25 pair cable for your runs from the system to the stations I don't think you would have this problem!

But again you insist on canabolising your phone's so you can use cat 5, 4 pair wire run multiple times to get the same thing accomplished some how but you still end up short, so you improvise with yet another wire

Oh and those sets I got, I haven't had time to try and rebuild them to the point they actually work.
I certainly was desperate and would have been better off waiting for a whole set. That's how those are going.

You spend so much time and money getting these things but by the time you re make them into something that works somewhat for you your moving on to get more changes and you still end up doing it wrong.
I'm done, this is crazy. As I've said too many times find a key system manual and read it find out how the real phone company did their stuff, and then build your system. Using the components they used to make their equipment work the way they designed it to be used.

Yes it can be modified to use to operate other stuff not intended to be operated.
But using the correct wire it sure makes for a much eaiser job when it comes to trouble shooting.

And again this also is some thing you've been told.
But you have your own ideas how you want it done, and when some thing screwed up your stuck.

I can't do this anymore, even others have already learned as will others will learn, you won't listen and continue to do it your way. The way it doesn't work.

I'm willing to help just about anyone but you, your different. So good luck, I have a delete button for the future.