Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Identification, Repair & Restoration => Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair => Topic started by: davrx on December 30, 2010, 04:45:54 PM

Title: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: davrx on December 30, 2010, 04:45:54 PM
Hi, totally new to vintage phones.  I'm trying to modify/restore a W.E. Imperial.  I received a NOS W.E. brass dial with the phone, part number F-56662.  I already removed the original 6 dial with clear plastic finger wheel but I've run into a problem.  The brass dial is of more recent vintage, 1967 I believe, while the original is from 1955.  The brass dial has an extra terminal marked BL that I don't know what to do with and one marked G in the same position as the Y on the original.  I went ahead and swapped out the dials and hooked everything up like the original leaving the BL with nothing attached to it and using the same wire that was attached to the Y attached to the G on the brass one.  Well, no dial tone now so obviously I've done something wrong.  I'd like to use this brass dial if possible since it is new in box, never used, and is in mint condition.  Anyone able to help me on this?  Thanks
Title: Re: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: Dennis Markham on December 30, 2010, 05:33:14 PM
Welcome to the Forum.

I don't know if this will be of any help.  But take a few minutes to read through this topic:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1682.0

I had a problem with a #6T dial in a Continental (D1 body) phone.  I only reference this because that dial had a BL terminal and was different than the other dials.  Perhaps something here can help.  If not, some of the other guys will weigh in on the subject.

~Dennis
Title: Re: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: davrx on December 30, 2010, 05:58:30 PM
Quote from: Dennis Markham on December 30, 2010, 05:33:14 PM
Welcome to the Forum.

I don't know if this will be of any help.  But take a few minutes to read through this topic:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1682.0

I had a problem with a #6T dial in a Continental (D1 body) phone.  I only reference this because that dial had a BL terminal and was different than the other dials.  Perhaps something here can help.  If not, some of the other guys will weigh in on the subject.

~Dennis


Thanks Dennis, I read your 6T post but being new to this am not sure what to do.  Is it as simple as using a jumper wire between the BK and BL terminals?
Title: Re: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: Dennis Markham on December 30, 2010, 06:27:41 PM
I would have to analyze this post again.  To be honest with you I don't remember all of what we did to get that thing working.  And I'm not sure what you have in the way of a dial.  Bill (Phonesrfun) was instrumental in helping me and perhaps he will have some ideas.  If you can, can you post some photos of the dial you're trying to connect.  I'm unfamiliar with the F-56662 you mentioned.

To upload photos, simply click on Additional Options below the Message box while you're making your post.  Then browse for your photos.
Title: Re: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: davrx on December 30, 2010, 06:50:41 PM
Hi Dennis, in your 6T post you stated that you were going to put a diagram of the wiring of your 6T-41 in the technical section but I can't find it. 
The photos you took of the terminals are the same as mine so whatever you did to get yours working should work for me.  Thanks, David
Title: Re: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: Dennis Markham on December 31, 2010, 12:10:22 AM
Dave, I guess I never put that information there.  I don't know that I have notes on that project and I don't have the phone.  I got it working for someone else.  Hopefully Bill (Phonesrfun) can give us a hand here and repeat the wiring information that he gave me.  I think he did help me over the phone which explains why it's not posted on the original post I referenced.
Title: Re: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: bingster on December 31, 2010, 12:22:30 AM
Is there a problem with the original dial, or are you just going for the "all gold" look?  I only ask because the original dial with a clear fingerwheel is much more highly prized than the newer brassy ones, and hookup would be much easier with it.
Title: Re: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: davrx on December 31, 2010, 12:52:57 AM
Yes, I'm going for the all gold look.  Out of frustration I put the original dial back and swapped out the finger wheels.  I also replaced the F1 handset with an E1 handset but the volume in the receiver is greatly reduced.  Wonder if I need to replace receiver element?  Thanks for trying to help out though.
Title: Re: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: Doug Rose on December 31, 2010, 07:18:21 AM
Davrx.... I do agree with Darrin on keeping the clear open face finger wheel on the Imperial 202, this was the way the came from WE. The 6E dial is a pain in the arse and I avoid using them. If memory serves (which is always a joy), in a 302 you split the black wires, one to each connection. In a 202, I don't know, never used one in a 202. Welcome to the forum, send us some pictures of you Imperial....Doug
Title: Re: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: LarryInMichigan on December 31, 2010, 09:13:43 AM
Quote from: davrx on December 31, 2010, 12:52:57 AM
Yes, I'm going for the all gold look.  Out of frustration I put the original dial back and swapped out the finger wheels.  I also replaced the F1 handset with an E1 handset but the volume in the receiver is greatly reduced.  Wonder if I need to replace receiver element?  Thanks for trying to help out though.

The receiver is an electromagnet and metal diaphragm which vibrates.  I seriously doubt that the receiver would need to be replaced if it is working at all.  You should check that the threads and contacts on the bottom of the capsule and the handset are clean and reasonably free of oxidation.  Dirt and oxidation will reduce the amount of current flowing through the coils and hence the output volume.  The most likely culprit though is the diaphragm.  If it is dirty, rusty, or bent, the volume will suffer.  Make sure that the diaphragm is clean and flat and that there is no foreign matter on top of the receiver capsule or inside the receiver cap which will push against the diaphragm and restrict its vibration.  I had a problem with the volume from the receiver on my wood wall phone.  As an experiment, I folded a small piece pf paper and stuck it between the magnet and the diaphragm and tightened the receiver cap.  After I removed the paper, the volume was drastically better.  I assume the the paper bent the diaphragm outward just enough to give it room to vibrate properly.  If you diaphragm is beyond hope, You should be able to find a replacement for a couple of dollars or so.

Larry
Title: Re: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: davrx on January 01, 2011, 01:30:33 PM
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on December 31, 2010, 09:13:43 AM
Quote from: davrx on December 31, 2010, 12:52:57 AM
Yes, I'm going for the all gold look.  Out of frustration I put the original dial back and swapped out the finger wheels.  I also replaced the F1 handset with an E1 handset but the volume in the receiver is greatly reduced.  Wonder if I need to replace receiver element?  Thanks for trying to help out though.

The receiver is an electromagnet and metal diaphragm which vibrates.  I seriously doubt that the receiver would need to be replaced if it is working at all.  You should check that the threads and contacts on the bottom of the capsule and the handset are clean and reasonably free of oxidation.  Dirt and oxidation will reduce the amount of current flowing through the coils and hence the output volume.  The most likely culprit though is the diaphragm.  If it is dirty, rusty, or bent, the volume will suffer.  Make sure that the diaphragm is clean and flat and that there is no foreign matter on top of the receiver capsule or inside the receiver cap which will push against the diaphragm and restrict its vibration.  I had a problem with the volume from the receiver on my wood wall phone.  As an experiment, I folded a small piece pf paper and stuck it between the magnet and the diaphragm and tightened the receiver cap.  After I removed the paper, the volume was drastically better.  I assume the the paper bent the diaphragm outward just enough to give it room to vibrate properly.  If you diaphragm is beyond hope, You should be able to find a replacement for a couple of dollars or so.

Larry

O.K., I can unscrew the receiver from the handset and the spacer ring but the rest is stuck.  I have a strap wrench but what do I use to hold the aluminum part without damaging the threads?
Title: Re: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: bingster on January 01, 2011, 06:38:06 PM
Another strap wrench, if you have one.  Apply force in opposite directions.  Otherwise, try the strap wrench on the aluminum part, and try to twist the cap by hand or with the help of one of those rubbery discs they sell for removing jar lids.

It's also quite possible that the receiver element is damaged.  If the E1 handset was once attached to a phone that was connected directly to the line without a subset, the receiver element could have been demagnetized, thereby reducing the volume of the reproduced sound.  That's one of the dangers of buying E1 handsets, either with or without the rest of the phone.  You never know how it might have been abused in the past.
Title: Re: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: davrx on January 03, 2011, 12:12:47 AM
Well, I got the receiver apart using just my hand and one of those rubber jar opener pads.  The metal diaphragm looks O.K. and I tried the paper trick to possibly push the diaphragm out slightly but still no good.  I think I have a demagnetized receiver element. 
Title: Re: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: LarryInMichigan on January 03, 2011, 06:28:18 AM
Quote from: davrx on January 03, 2011, 12:12:47 AM
Well, I got the receiver apart using just my hand and one of those rubber jar opener pads.  The metal diaphragm looks O.K. and I tried the paper trick to possibly push the diaphragm out slightly but still no good.  I think I have a demagnetized receiver element. 

The permanent magnet can lose its strength, although I have not seen that on any of my E1s.  Does the magnet hold the diaphragm in place?  If you hold the handset with the diaphragm downward without the cap, does the diaphragm fall off, or does the magnet hold it?

If you need a new receiver capsule and/or diaphragm, Steve Hilsz would be the one to contact (http://phonesurplus.com/ (http://phonesurplus.com/)).


Larry
Title: Re: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: davrx on January 08, 2011, 12:06:09 AM
If you need a new receiver capsule and/or diaphragm, Steve Hilsz would be the one to contact (http://phonesurplus.com/).


Are the F1 and E1 elements interchangeable?  Otherwise it looks like Steve only has the F1's.
Title: Re: WE Dial part F-56662
Post by: Phonesrfun on January 09, 2011, 03:11:57 PM
The HA1 receiver element in an F1 handset is an entirely different animal than the 557 used in the E1 handset.  While electrically similar, they are mechanically and physically different in many respects.  You would not be able to "upgrade" an E1 handset with the HA1 receiver.