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1970s Sculptura phone doesn't ring - New member - first post

Started by recyklotron, July 19, 2012, 01:31:39 PM

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recyklotron

Greetings,

New member - first post.

I found this forum quite by accident but am oh so happy to have done so.  Last February I was searching the net for a way to reclaim vintage yellowed plastics. My partner & I have a booth in a local antique group shop where we sell 60s & 70s artefacts. We are always passing up items that should be white but instead are in varying shades of cream/yellow/brown.  I followed one retrobrite link to your site & read about the  process. I picked up the ingredients but haven't tried it out yet.
Coincidentally, in that strange way the universe works, a few days prior to finding this site we had retrieved 2 boxes of vintage telephones from our storage space. We have only ever used vintage phones at home & while I wouldn't consider us full fledged collectors, we always pick up vintage phones when we come across them.
These particular boxes had not been seen by us for at least 12 years & of the 10 telephones in them only one, a yellow WE500 which we promptly sold, was actually working. The other 9 are 'project' phones - now my learning lab. I decided to take advantage of this bit of serendipity & see if I could, with your help, figure out how to get them into working order. For the past few months I have been reading the
various posts on CRTF. I got the Ralph Meyer book from the library & read it cover to cover a couple of times. I now at least have a basic idea of how telephones work plus the beginnings of a working vocabulary.
Up until recenly all I could do to an old phone was clean the exterior surfaces. Now, thanks to this forum, I can do that only much better plus I can clean grungy handset cords.We didn't have any denatured alcohol when I read that thread so I tried rubbing alcohol & had excellent results. I also found after reading the post on recoiling a stretched cord that inserting a dowel into the coils
makes it a lot easier to clean the exterior of the cord by providing a solid surface to push against. I can now also remove & replace clear plastic finger wheels - one of life's biggest mysteries!

Now it is time to get some practical experience with wiring. Last weekend we picked up a 1970s SCULPTURA rotary donut phone at the flea market for $5, a great deal even with the black cord. It was pretty dirty but cleaned up nicely & responded well to an initial use of Novus #2. It dials out & sounds ok but it does not ring. I opened it up, took photos & proceeded to finesse it out of its shell. I took photos from every conceivable angle & have included a few below. Let me know if others are needed.
There are 25 wires all neatly knotted & bundled making it a bit hard to trace each one - I didn't want to undo the knot -  but I think I did ok tracing the 4 ringer wires. The black goes to the L1 terminal. The red to the K terminal. The gray & the gray w/ red are taped off with yellow tape. Just to make certain I got the red bell wire correct I traced the other 3 red network wires:handset port to R - line port to A - & hook switch to GN. Through another forum link I found Steve Hilsz' page on the "PROPER HOOKUP OF RINGERS". I was tempted to go ahead and try it but decided to ask first as I don't want to make a mess of it! I have no experience reading schematics, but am eager to learn. I did an internet search but could not find one for this telephone.

TIA for your help & patience with an absolute beginner.
Kind Regards,
Jonathan/recyklotron/Boston

poplar1

The wiring is pretty much the same as other Western Electric phones of that era. It sounds as if you have it wired correctly. Not sure why it is not ringing. This is the same ringer found in a Trimline in case you have to replace it.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

paul-f

Welcome to the forum, Jonathan!

One good source of information on Western Electric phones is the Bell System Practices (BSP) documents.

The one for the Sculptura includes some basic info for installers plus several wiring diagrams which will help you understand what all those wires do withoug having to untie the knot.  Color codes are shown in the diagrams.

Many BSPs are being colected in the TCI Library:
  http://www.telephonecollectors.info/

The BSP for the Sculptura is here:
  http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=2999&Itemid=2

General info on BSP is here:
  http://www.paul-f.com/BSP.html

These were published for trained Bell System employees many years ago, so contain their share of jargon and simplifying shortcuts.  Let us know if you have any questions interpreting the info.
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

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recyklotron

Hi Paul,
Thanks for the links to the BSP for the Sculptura. I spent some time today & traced all 25 wires to their terminals on the network. I tried to match them up to the chart in the BSP & got a few differences. However, when I went to the schematic I found that the differences I noted matched perfectly w/ the schematic except that the schematic (& the chart) show a terminal F which I do not find on my network. I am including the chart from the BSP w/ my notations just in case I didn't read the chart & schematic correctly as this was my first attempt.
Thanks again,
Jonathan/recyklotron

paul-f

Perhaps BSP 501-135-100 will help...

  http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=2680&Itemid=2

We have some family obligations this weekend.  I'll try to post more when there's time.
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

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recyklotron

Hi Paul,
Thanks for this link. I can see where the F terminal is supposed to be located. It is obscured on my phone & I took that position to be part of the A terminal. I think this shows that my phone is wired correctly but still no ring. I will pick up some electrical contact cleaner & see if that makes a difference!
Thanks again,
Jonathan/recyklotron/Boston

paul-f

Do you have any test equipment available?  A simple ohmmeter will help.

As you can see from the wiring diagram. the ringing circuit is quite simple.  Trace the path from L1 through the ringer coils to Network terminal K, through the internal capacitor to terminal A then to the "ring" lead of the line cord.

If the ringer is a straight line ringer (most likely), The problem is probably either a bad ringer coil or bad capacitor.  Although it's possible one or more of the spade tips on the connecting wires is not  conducting properly.

Using an ohmmeter you can test the coil and capacitor -- removing one lead for the test so the part is out of the circuit temporarily.

The coil should show a resistance - not 0 or infinite resistance.

With you rmeter, you can also test to make sure the tips are conducting as they should.


The capacitor should show infinite resistance
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

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recyklotron

Hi Paul,
Thanks once again for your help.
I have an older analog meter pictured below but am an absolute beginner when it comes to everything we are discussing. Will it work for what I need to do? I put in a fresh battery & tested another battery & it seems to be working. If it is not adequate I will pick up a new meter next weekend. I watched several youtube vids yesterday so I have a glimmer of what you have described re using the meter.
  So, from what you said & looking at the schematic, the ringer coils are between L1 & K, the capacitor is between K & A and the ring wire is between A & R.  Here's a real beginner question: Does the phone need to be connected to the line  or does the power for the testing come from the meter which uses a 1.5v battery?
Thanks,
Jonathan/recyklotron

paul-f

Your meter will work fine.  Most of the tests should be done with the phone not connected to the line, and involve simple resistance checks as previously described.

For example, to test a wire connected to spade tips, disconnect one end of the wire (so it's not in an external circuit), set the meter for one of the resistance scales, place one test probe on each end of the wire and take your reading.  If the spade tips are conducting properly, there will be 0 ohms resistance.  If your reading is high to infinite resistance, there is a problem.
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

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poplar1

>  So, from what you said & looking at the schematic, the ringer coils are between L1 & K, the capacitor is between K & A and the ring wire is between A & R.>

Paul was saying that the "ring" side of the line goes to A; he is referring to the red wire from the wall, not the ringer wire. The line wires are known as "tip" and "ring," derived from parts of the switchboard plug and not referring to the ringer of a phone.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

recyklotron

Hi,
These are my readings: L1->K w/ wires removed = no needle movement. Is that the infinite resistance you wrote about?
K->A w/ wires removed = no needle movement.
I did try testing other wires & got 0s or close to so I know the meter is working.
So, from what you told me does this mean that the cap is good but the ringer coil is not? I do not see a separate ringer coil. Is it in the network or under the bell?
(I have not removed the bell from the base as the ringer wires are taped to the base & I'm just not sure  about what to do next!. As the schematic does not place the coil in the network can I deduce that it is under the bell?)
Thanks again,
Jonathan/recyklotron

poplar1

Try measuring just the red and black ringer wires after removing them from K and L1. Should be about 3600 ohms, may be reading infinite if ringer coil is bad.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

poplar1

Also, I don't see how you have dial tone. Green and white hookswitch contacts close together when going off hook. If you have green hookswitch wire on L1 and white hookswitch wire on A, and the line is connected to L1 and A, you would be shorting out the line when going off hook. The white hookswitch wire is supposed to be on F, along with one blue dial wire.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

recyklotron

The white wire is connected to F. I had mistakenly  thought it was A as I couldn't see the F marking. I realized my mistake after seeing the schematic.

The reading  I get from the disconnected black & red ringer wires is ~6500 on the highest meter setting. The lower 2 settings show no needle movement!

poplar1

So, the problem is still an open capacitor (from A to K inside the network) or a defective ringer (but not an open coil). You may have a spare ringer in a Trimline, and a 0.47 uf capacitor can be found at Radio Shack or in the same Trimline.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.