News:

"The phone is a remarkably complex, simple device,
and very rarely ever needs repairs, once you fix them." - Dan/Panther

Main Menu

Indie Manual D1

Started by rp2813, June 25, 2017, 04:15:36 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

rp2813

On a recent visit to Tucson, I spotted this manual D1 and decided it was worth getting for $30.  The F1W handset is hollow and appears to be from 1947, as are the transmitter and receiver (both 8/47).   The D1 housing is dated IV 37.  I can't find any dates on the handset cord, and the subset mounting cord has been snipped and shoved inside the base.  The handset itself has one major issue:  the strain relief screw for the cord broke off at some point.  I didn't buy this rig for the handset, though.  I liked the condition of the housing.

I was thinking about using this clean housing on my 1931 D1, but I'm torn about the fact that it wouldn't be a matching dates base as a result.  This manual set might instead end up in my box of phones in the attic.

I'm more curious about the history of this set.  I tried to find information on the GIbraltar exchange, and not surprisingly, it's not listed as one the Bell System used.   I think it's safe to assume this phone was the property of an independent telco, perhaps somewhere in Arizona.  It's interesting that the number on the card is a 7-character type that would indicate dial capability.  Maybe this was an answer-only extension?  Any suggestions for further research on this particular exchange would be appreciated. 

As is often the case, when I found this set, the number card had been flipped over to show a blank.  I really like the GIbraltar name, and may use this number card on my 1931 phone.  The felt cover on the base plate is in good shape, so I'm for sure going to switch it out with the crispy one on the '31 base.

Ralph

unbeldi

#1
One cannot determine, in any official manner, whether a given central office name was used in the Bell System or not.  There were few rules, if any, but in the larger metropolitan areas names were assigned based on linguistic studies to avoid mistakes. Until the design of the North American Numbering Plan in 1947, the network was a rather loose aggregation of local numbering plans.  Official recommendations were issued by AT&T in 1955.  These recommendations did not require anyone to change existing names though, nor did they in fact require anyone to use the new names for new offices.

The name Gibraltar comes to mind immediately for several offices on Staten Island, NY.

I wouldn't place too much significance on the combination of the handset with that base.

unbeldi

#2
Gibraltar became GIbraltar 2 in December 1930, in NYC Zone 14. GIbraltar 7 was added by May 1931.  NYC had 7-digit number already.  GIbraltar 8 was added in 1947.

The TENP database doesn't show any additional places that used the name Gibraltar.  It is a private project to catalog names submitted by site visitors.


unbeldi

#3
From the 1940 telephone book of Staten Island:
The telephone number on your telephone was listed for Lester E Kelley at 149 Van Cortlandt Avenue, S.I.

rp2813

Interesting.  So this may have been Lester Kelly's phone set, presuming that the F1W handset became attached to it some time later.  Since the cords have no dates, they're probably after market, which provides another clue that this set experienced some traveling after serving Mr. Kelly.

I found information on the Staten Island exchange when I first checked on line, but if I recall correctly, it was based on someone's memory and not on any sort of list.  This is what caused me to think the phone may have belonged to an Arizona independent.  Of course, I've seen phones with Area Code number cards from all over the country turn up locally, so it's entirely plausible that a NY phone made its way to AZ.

If I had a jack in my living room, I'd connect this phone in there, more as a conversation piece -- so to speak -- than for regular use.   

I don't know if trying to drill out the strain relief screw would be advisable.  I suppose I have nothing to lose in making an attempt, but I don't know the specs on a replacement screw.
Ralph

poplar1

Quote from: unbeldi on June 25, 2017, 05:16:25 PM
Gibraltar became GIbraltar 2 in December 1930, in NYC Zone 14. GIbraltar 7 was added by May 1931.  NYC had 7-digit number already.


The pre-1930 numbers were probably GIBraltar rather than Gibraltar,once any part of NYC had dials. Changing 3L-4N (GIB xxxx) to 2L-5N (GI 2-xxxx) would not affect the seven dial pulls.

Also, where local calling to a mix of manual and dial central offices, even the manual phones would have number cards and directory listings with the first letters emphasized.

The handset cord appears to be a repro from Phoneco. More than likely, an F-type handset from NY Telephone would be marked "Bell System."

The party line code in the GIbraltar 7-0622-M listing indicates that at least some (if not all) GIx lines were still manual (non-dial) in 1940.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Alex G. Bell

Quote from: rp2813 on June 25, 2017, 08:59:12 PM
If I had a jack in my living room, I'd connect this phone in there, more as a conversation piece -- so to speak -- than for regular use.   

I don't know if trying to drill out the strain relief screw would be advisable.  I suppose I have nothing to lose in making an attempt, but I don't know the specs on a replacement screw.
I trust you understand that it would need a subset to serve as a conversation piece literally instead of figuratively.

Two F-type handsets I inspected had identical screws for the terminals as for the strain relief. One has brass fillister head screws.  The other has steel, what I believe are cheese-head screws, with the concentric rings on top which seem to be pretty much unique to WECo products.  It looks like yours have the latter type of head and the broken off stub appears white like steel rather than yellow like brass.  In both cases (probably all cases), these are #5-40 screws.

It could be difficult to drill out a harder steel screw in a softer brass insert without damaging the insert.  Some years ago a local machinist used an EDM (electro discharge machine) to burn out a broken off screw stub and drill bit I discovered in the transmitter mount hole of a much more valuable piece, a 130 type "pancake" phone.  I caught him at a slow moment, he was sympathetic to my interest in restoring an antique piece and he understood I could not justify paying normal commercial rates for a repair so he was kind enough to do this as a favor. 

The resulting original tapped hole was so precisely cleared of the remnants or the original frozen screw stub and bit that when the EDM was finished he had to insert a fine right angle scribe into the hole to chase the crescent shaped  tops remaining stuck between the female threads from the original male screw threads. 

Once he did this the original female threads were perfectly intact.  Needless to say I was very impressed by his demonstration of the capability of EDM and his skill in centering the piece so precisely before burning it away, and of course very appreciative of the favor. 

Perhaps you too can find someone locally who is willing to demonstrate EDM for you as a favor.

unbeldi

#7
Quote from: poplar1 on June 25, 2017, 10:34:23 PM
The pre-1930 numbers were probably GIBraltar rather than Gibraltar,once any part of NYC had dials. Changing 3L-4N (GIB xxxx) to 2L-5N (GI 2-xxxx) would not affect the seven dial pulls.

Also, where local calling to a mix of manual and dial central offices, even the manual phones would have number cards and directory listings with the first letters emphasized.

The handset cord appears to be a repro from Phoneco. More than likely, an F-type handset from NY Telephone would be marked "Bell System."

The party line code in the GIbraltar 7-0622-M listing indicates that at least some (if not all) GIx lines were still manual (non-dial) in 1940.

No, there were no three-letter exchange names at all on Staten Island (Richmond at the time) before 1930,  this is why I stated that the geographic name became a 2L office name.
Also, Staten Island could not be dialed directly from the rest of NYC before that time.

The place names in the 1920s on S.I. were Dongan Hills, Gibraltar, Honeywood, Port Richmond, St. George, Tomkinsville, Tottenville.
I have not found information when the central office for Gibraltar was actually created. It may have been created only shortly before the renumbering in 1930, or with it.

Yes, many numbers in both GI2 and GI7, had party-line letters attached in the directory.


PS:  After perusing some of the newly available NYC directories online, it appears that the Gibraltar exchanges were probably added with the Dec. 1930 renumbering. I could not find any such numbers in the 1928 telephone books.

rp2813

The two subsets I own are already in use, but I still have a home-brew version that was installed inside a D1 instead of an external subset, so I can use that.  It doesn't need to ring.  Indeed, I can't even wire up my subsets' ringers because they require too much voltage, and with two 500s, a Trimline, and a chime box already ringing, a subset ringer barely gets enough voltage to gently tap its gongs.
Ralph

Alex G. Bell

Quote from: rp2813 on June 26, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
The two subsets I own are already in use, but I still have a home-brew version that was installed inside a D1 instead of an external subset, so I can use that.  It doesn't need to ring.  Indeed, I can't even wire up my subsets' ringers because they require too much voltage, and with two 500s, a Trimline, and a chime box already ringing, a subset ringer barely gets enough voltage to gently tap its gongs.
If either subset is a sidetone type (295A/334A/534A/584A) it can be shared among multiple talking sets.  AST subsets require special talking sets with additional cradle switch contacts. 

However a shared ST subset will require 3-conductor inside wire that returns to the location of the shared subset.  If the wiring topology happens to work out this way you have lucked out.

nolan613

You could center punch the exposed screw body and use a 1/16 inch reverse twist drill bit with liberal use of lubricant. Might get lucky and the screw will back out on its own and if not you can use the hole to access an "easy-out" to remove the screw. I have done this with both brass and steel screws with very few failures over the years. The key is a good center punch and a steady hand with the drill.
Success is not final,
failure is not fatal:
it is the courage to continue that counts

Winston Churchill

Alex G. Bell

Quote from: nolan613 on June 26, 2017, 06:50:13 PM
You could center punch the exposed screw body and use a 1/16 inch reverse twist drill bit with liberal use of lubricant. Might get lucky and the screw will back out on its own and if not you can use the hole to access an "easy-out" to remove the screw. I have done this with both brass and steel screws with very few failures over the years. The key is a good center punch and a steady hand with the drill.
It might work.  Worth trying.  Center punching accurately is a lot easier though if the surface is flat but when a screw breaks off often it's not.  Since it's at the bottom of a cavity it would be difficult to flatten it to center punch accurately.

This morning I drilled out a broken brass #2-56 screw in the edge of a solid back transmitter.  However the end of the screw was above the surface so I was able to file it flat before center punching.  I drilled a very undersized hole.  When I attempted to enlarge it the larger bit broke the screw stub free and spun it inward.  But it was not a blind hole and I had the benefit of a drill press.

This was a screw I broke the head off because it was binding in the hole.  The others were binding too but came out without breaking although with damaged threads.  So there was a marked difference between the modest force applied which broke the head off and the very little force needed to spin the stub out after drilling through it.  I've similar behavior a number of times, as though drilling the first undersized hole through allowed the screw stub to shrink so that it came out very easily once drilled through.

Victor Laszlo

"So this may have been Lester Kelly's phone set..."

So, what are you waiting for? Dial 1+718+ the number, and ask for Mr. Kelly. You might just reach his great grandson.  Ask him if he'd like to get his phone back. The worst you could do is annoy someone who's had it up to here with telemarketers.

Victor Laszlo

Wow, Mr. Bell, you certainly have a knack for unscrewing. I have had limited success, but not at the #2-56 level.

nolan613

#14
Actually I used to grind the point on my center punch to give myself better control. Much easier solution is a spring loaded punch from General Tools which has a very fine ground point to start with and eliminates the hammer.

"General Tools 70079 Utility Automatic Center Punch" at $9.98 from Amazon with free shipping.
Success is not final,
failure is not fatal:
it is the courage to continue that counts

Winston Churchill