500-type bell volume/mute...

[twocvbloke]

I'm just having a fiddle with that phone to the left there, the 500DM, and I'm messing about with the C4A bells, trying to get the thing to sound a little more hearty on the BT line, and I'm happily tweaking away with the spring and clapper arm (probably ruining the thing cos I'm just guessing as to what I'm doing!!) trying to get the thing to work right...

Anyway, the best sound it makes seems to result in the bells being muted when on the lowest setting, now is this right, or should I stop fiddling?

I can see how it works, you have the copper clapper arm, and below that is the arm that hits the adjustable bell base/wheel (which has steps to compensate for it's position when turned up or down), and from fiddling with all three of my 500-type phones, the base of the clapper has to be stopped just short of hitting the bell so the clapper arm bends to strike the bell, but not rest upon it by springing back, I assume that's right, or at least a near enough set of guesses...

I do like these phones, there's always something to play with under the bonnet...

[Phonesrfun]

Gee, under normal circumstances, a 500 should drive you out of the house on full volume.  That is with "standard" ringing current of the type supplied by legacy phone companies in the US, and I assume in the UK, which is about 75 or so volts AC at 20 Hz.

I know you are in the UK, but I don't know if I remember if you are on BT or are you using an internet VoIP provider for your phone service?

[Phonesrfun]

oops, you did say BT line.

[Phonesrfun]

If I remember, BT has a different ringing system at the house than we use here on the left side of the pond.  Ringing current comes in directly superimposed across the two line wires and there is a capacitor in the network between terminals A and K that is in series with the ringer.

If memory serves me, in the UK, it seems that there used to be the situation where the main terminal block in the house contained the ringing capacitor that in turn fed all the extensions in the house and the phones, themselves did not have a ringing capacitor.

Is that still the case?

[twocvbloke]

Yeah, we still have the capacitor in the Master socket setup, but with modern phones, the capacitor is completely superfluous as modern phones only use 2 of the 3 wires, the A & B (or Tip & Ring), completely ignoring the Bell wire, so the AC ringing current bypasses the capacitor and goes directly into the phones, be they modern electronic things or proper phones...

Even BT's own hardware mostly uses 2 wires, so the bell wire, which apparently also can insert interference on ADSL connections, is pretty much redundant, even most GPO phones can be wired to use 2 wires using their original built-in capacitors, the only issue with them is they suffer bell tinkle, hence why they came up with the bell wire to alleviate that problem, whereas you guys just fixed the bell so that it had springs to prevent the "tinkle"...

[Phonesrfun]

Yes, I just checked Google and if you connect your phone directly across terminals 2 and 5 (according to the thing I looked at), you should be straight across the line.  Then if the ringer has the red wire connected to L2, and the black connected to L1, and the slate to K and the slate/red to A then it should ring like crazy if the ringing voltage is right and if it is a straight line ringer!

If all your WE phones are doing the same thing, it is probably a ringing current issue.  Do you know what the ringing current is in the UK?  Do you have a volt meter to test it with?

[twocvbloke]

If all your WE phones are doing the same thing, it is probably a ringing current issue.  Do you know what the ringing current is in the UK?  Do you have a volt meter to test it with?

Yeah, I have a multimeter, but I've been ordered not to mess about with the phoneline (unless it's adding an extension to the kitchen for the Cortelco or plugging in & upnlugging phones!! I don't pay for it, I just pay Gas & electric!!), but looking about, the voltage and frequency are set at 75v 25Hz for BT spec. lines (cable & other operators can vary as they use their own stuff)...

I have connected my meter to my BT 286A linesman phone (which has a G-type handset, of course), and it puts out up to 90v AC (not sure what frequency), which makes adjustments difficult as the BT Linesman phone doesn't seem to work as per the BT phone exchange, so the phones sound perfect on that, but on the real line they lose their potency and just don't have the same effect ringerwise, but that's why I'm fiddling away here...

[Phonesrfun]

Well, good luck with it.  Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[dsk]

I have problems with the ringer at the job PABX here too. UK And Norway often use 25Hz, this should not cause any problems. The shorter rings in UK may give even shorter rings if the ringermotor uses a little time for starting, but it should ring. The ringing voltage is the most critical here. Setting the anti tinkling spring to the less tense position may help. Putting a capacitor 0.5-1 µF between K and A increase the ringer current. This may help, but it increases the load, so you have to test out if all telephones rings OK.

A wireless telephone jack supplies the needed ringer signals, but does not accept rotary

dsk

[twocvbloke]

The phones do ring, it's just that they sound weak (the only time they haven't worked was with my in-bits cream GPO 746 which just clogged the line up completely on it's own!!), the bias spring on all three phones is set to the weaker position otherwise they just don't ring properly full stop (acting more like a buzzer than a ringer), but I'll just keep working at it, cos it amuses me no end...

I'm just wondering what that red 2500 that's on the way will be like and whether it's ringer will need some tinkering time...

Well, good luck with it.  Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Don't worry about it, I enjoy fiddling with things and asking questions, even if my questions can't be answered fully I still enjoy the discussion...

[dsk]

Try that capacitor solution, and tell us if it works for you.
The 2500 and 500 has similar ringers.

dsk

[twocvbloke]

Yeah, I need to get some suitable capacitors (especially for my C4A-bbased home made bellset!!), but I also have to be careful of the REN on the line, as not to sap the current away from the two electronic phones that are on the line (Motorola cordless and base-model BT Viscount), I just need to get myself a panasonic KX-T616 phone system at some point, just cos they work well, and have plenty power for the real phones...