Is Western Electric Quality a myth?

[zuperdee]

I am wondering why some people seem to think Western Electric was so vastly superior in terms of quality to everything else, because it doesn't look so clear-cut to me.

As I've noted my history of 4th generation telephones, up until about 1974, the independents (with the exception of Automatic Electric) were virtually 100% identical to Western Electric. There were some cost-cutting changes, but they generally tended to mirror changes made by Western Electric itself, for example: shifting from #7-type dials to #9-type dials, shifting from black paint to yellow cadmium plating on the bases, and shifting from Tenite to ABS plastic. Not a single one of these changes decreased the quality of the phones. Yes, they were moves intended to reduce manufacturing costs, but nonetheless, the #9 dial was quieter and smoother than the #7 dial, cadmium plating gave protection equal to black paint, and if anything, ABS plastic was stronger than Tenite.

One of the most often cited examples of alleged poorer quality is printed circuit boards versus W.E.'s potted networks. Again, I don't see any good reason for this, because Western Electric itself shifted away from potting in the mid 1970's when they changed from the 425x network to the 4228 network. The ONLY difference between W.E. and the independents was that W.E. still hand assembled the circuits, while the independents used printed circuits. Given this, the only remaining question is: Were W.E.'s non-potted hand-made circuits really better than the independents' non-potted printed circuits? I somehow doubt it.

Furthermore, according to Wikipedia, "Most circuit board assembly houses coat assemblies with a layer of transparent conformal coating rather than potting. Conformal coating gives most of the benefits of potting, and is lighter and easier to inspect, test, and repair."

So what's the difference between W.E. and the independents, apart from the circuit construction method?

[McHeath]

Well I'm no expert but I will toss out my observations of my phones.  My Strombergs and ITTs and Cortelco 500s all have subtle differences between them and WE.

Date codes are one big difference.  Quality control that is top notch needs a way to determine when a batch was made so that problems can be traced and corrected, the independents did not date code to the level of WE, and indeed eventually gave up almost entirely. 

Thinner materials are another difference.  My independent phones have thinner plastics, and even thinner metals. 

Fit and finish are different as well.  My independent phones, made from the 60's to 2003, do not fit together as well as my WE phones. 

All that being said it's obvious that all of them are made better than anything out there today.  My 2003 Cortelco 500 is built like a tank compared to my cordless phone of the same era.  And since the independents phones have lasted so long it's pretty clear that they were well made, afterall they did not want to be so far below WE in quality that it was obvious.

[dencins]

Western Electric Quality can be divided into two eras - pre-WWII and Post-WWII.  Much of this was due to Walter Shewhart, W. Edwards Deming, and Joseph Juran who were the key individuals in manufacturing quality development.  All three left Western Electric by the end of WWII and the quality levels started to erode.  Shewhart brought Cost of Quality concept to WECo.  Deming and Juran both Statiscal Process Control.  Deming became so frustrated by the management approach after WWII that he eventually worked as a consultant in Japan developing the quality systems including early Toyota involvement.  There is a bronze statue built honoring him in "Toyota City".  Joe Juran started his own consulting company and was involved in the USA quality culture change in the 1980's.

I was fortunate to attend several Statistical Quality seminars with both Dr Deming and Dr juran.  Both were decades ahead of their time and the approaches they developed are stil used today.  

Dennis      

[Phonesrfun]

Seems to me that WE, along with its sister company, Bell Labs had a lot of resources at its disposal, and was at least able to make phones with a lot of quality built in.  For sure, during the timeframe from the 1920s through the end, Bell Labs was, through its research and development activities, defining the state of the art when it comes to the technical aspects of telephony in general.  When it comes to the actual telephone sets, the Western set was generally hands down better than the competition up to some point in time.

My own thinking is that the potted network worked well for Bell, and they may have adopted the "If it aint broke, don't fix it" mantra.  For sure, they did not want their installers to be replacing networks in the field.  In the factory refurb shop, that may be another story entirely.

Their way of dealing with bad networks was to either replace the base entirely and recycle the old to the smelter, or to drill out the rivets and replace the network and send the old network to recycling.  I doubt if they ever replaced component parts on a network, even at the lowest level of refurbishing.  Either way, that probably worked for them for a long time, since Networks rarely went bad to begin with.

Printed Circuit Networks were, I think, pioneered by AE and then later adopted by SC and ITT.  They were not only easier to swap out, but they made the phone a little lighter in weight.  I have no idea if network repair by the independants ever went to the level of individual component replacement.  Troubleshooting and replacing is labor intensive and therefore expensive.  Once a component is desoldered and resoldered in, there is also an ever so slight degradation to the integrety of the printed circuit trace.  My guess is that a repaired board would be more likely to fail a second time around than a new one entirely, both because there was an "invasive" repair, and because it was older to begin with.

Western never did use bakelite as a cover on a telephone body.  Ringers and subsets, yes, but not telephones.  Their thinking was probably that ringers are permanantly attached to a wall and never get dropped.  Phones get dropped all the time.  I think that was a good move on their part.  Bakelite bodies on phones are very problematic as we all know.  So that one gets a plus for quality.

Now the dial....Very confusing.  With all the resources at the disposal of Ma Bell, I do not know why they went with the dial gear train that they used.  Maybe they did not want to copy from AE.  They could have done any number of things to keep from using an AE-type dial and still had their own design.  I guess this will forever be a mystery to me.

I would say that phones up through the 60's were higher quality than the others.  Remember this is only an opinion, and nothing else!

In the 70's everyone was looking for ways to cut costs.  Look at the crap Detroit was turning out in the 70's that was the invitation to the Japanese to sell in our market.  Phone companies too.  Bell had done all the R&D needed at the time to make the better telephone from a technical standpoint, and they were off doing other things like computers, lasers, semiconductors, microwaves, and defense.  So, I think naturally, they turned to cutting costs just like everyone else.  Usually when you cut costs, you also cut quality.

Growing up in the 60's and the 70's it was apparent to me that telephones were being made cheaper all the time.  As were cars and other consumer items.  One of the most horrible things that Bell did in their cost cutting binge was try to modularize everything under the sun.  That is a different topic altogether.

I think the epitome of bad ideas for cost cutting on telephones was the AE80e which has a crappy hookswitch built right into the network card.

Newer phones built on IC technology, rather than a network do seem to work really well.  The IC based touchtone dial is also a great thing.  These phones have their place and for sure this type of phone is needed in our digital PBX world of today.  I cannot imagine how telecommunications of today would be handled if electronic technology stood still in the 60's when things were made like tanks.

So, all I can do is to report my experiences and thoughts.  Trading the tank-like technology of the past with well crafted parts and materials and assembled in a thoughtful way, or the crappy assembly and thin plastic parts of today, blended with poorly designed products.  Have you ever tried cradleing your cell phone on your shoulder while lookinging for your keys?  It usually results in dropping the phone in the driveway. - New definition of a dropped call.

Too bad we cannot have both high tech and high quality.  If we had both, we would not be able to afford it.

My thoughts.

[Dan/Panther]

I think without a doubt, Western Electric quality was excellent up to the mass clone age ( mid 60's on ) .
Of the post clone age 500's, ITT is in my mind superior to Stromberg Carlson, and others.
If You recall a member recently found a very abused 500 that is estimated to be 62 years old, and it worked flawlessly with no repairs except to replace missing parts.

D/P

[Phonesrfun]

Which member was that? 

I don't recall any thread about a 62-year-old WE that had been repaired and missing parts replaced? and a subsequent conference call.

[dencins]

It takes about 10 - 15 years for an operating approach to deteriorate.  The WECo quality system in place before 1945 included Design for Manufacture with Capability Studies required before product was released to production.  I believe the carryover of the Quality system is why some of the features in the 1948/1949 field trial versions did not make it to production.  As time went on less and less of the Quality system existed until most decisions were eventually based on short term expense goals rather than Cost of Quality.

This evolution would mean product introductions starting in the early 1960's would start to show poorer quality as the ability to produce the product became more difficult. 

To show how influential Dr Deming was - about the same time WECo products were going downhill, Toyota and other Japanese products were starting to be seen as "Top Quality".

Dennis

[Dan]

I would say WE is better overall, except my AE 80  rde soft plastic body is thicker and heavier than it's WE500 counterpart. I like the waking cradle design of the AE  80 better too.

[Dan/Panther]

Which member was that? 

I don't recall any thread about a 62-year-old WE that had been repaired and missing parts replaced? and a subsequent conference call.

Bill;
I thought I read it somewhere sorry if I was mistaken. Age you know....I sure hope I didn't dream it....
D/P

[Phonesrfun]

I will say this about the AE80.  The hookswitch travel is such that with the cover off, you can press it all the way down, and thus hang up the phone while continuing to work on it.  The WE 500 design, which others copied under license, did not have this handy feature.  With those, you had to hold the hookswitch down either with your finger or something else while continuing to work on the phone with the cover removed.

I guess the 500 design was not supposed to be worked on with the cover off.  

[Phonesrfun]

Bill;
I thought I read it somewhere sorry if I was mistaken. Age you know....I sure hope I didn't dream it....
D/P

Must have been a dream....

[Jester]

It seems to me that the heart of the original question is really not about quality, but is rather about preference.  Just like the items we drive to work or wash our clothes with, collectors tend to choose what they like based on a variety features, with quality being only a small part of the whole.  As has been mentioned above, Western Electric obviously built a quality product & there are many examples owned by forum members that bear testimony to that fact.  How quiet the dial is or how far the switch has to travel are merely features of each individual manufacturer.  For example, you may like a quieter and smoother dial, but the louder-operating dial is not an indication of poor quality or design if there is no ill affect in overall performance or operation.  Again, it seems to be what the individual prefers & not who made a better example.  From what I've seen, all of these companies have built phones that have more than proven themselves--I just prefer Western Electric.

[savageje]

I wouldn't say WE quality is a myth.  Even the flimsiest of features in the late 70s and early 80s phones from AE, Western, ITT, and others seem pretty solid by today's standards.  Even though each manufacturer had its desirable design features, each set a pretty high bar for quality.  When cost-cutting design changes were made, they always had to be kept in balance with keeping service and repair visits to a minimum -- otherwise, you'd be cutting one cost and driving another up -- thus defeating the whole purpose of the design change.  All in all, I think it is pretty hard to say which of the old manufacturers was better than others in terms of quality, but the variety is what makes collecting interesting.

[AET]

I love all the brands, but have a preference for the WE phones.  I think a lot comes down to opinion.  As far as working on them, I like WE's better, but then again I know them much better as well.  Just like working on a Ford when you're a Chevy guy.

[gpo706]

I will say this about the AE80.  The hookswitch travel is such that with the cover off, you can press it all the way down, and thus hang up the phone while continuing to work on it.  The WE 500 design, which others copied under license, did not have this handy feature.  With those, you had to hold the hookswitch down either with your finger or something else while continuing to work on the phone with the cover removed.

I guess the 500 design was not supposed to be worked on with the cover off.  

The GPO 706 has this handy latch too, maybe they took this from AE.

Very handy last night when my "star" red's bells wouldn't ring and an inspection found the screwheads of the ringer retainer had sheared off and I had to replace the ringer chassis.

Mind you they had been in it since 1961, so hadn't done too badly for build quality.

I don't have any AE sets but my 500/554s are built like tanks, my ITT 500 clone is almost as substantial, but its an 80's refurb on a 60's base.