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Price of black 302's & AE 40's

Started by Signguy, December 31, 2011, 11:16:27 AM

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Signguy

Ok.... I'm still a Newbie on the block and don't understand the pricing of seemingly common phones. As noted in the past we have collected many different items over the last fifty years. Since the advent of ebay some once considered rare items are now fairly common. With that revelation most items have gone down in price and in some cases have become almost impossible to sell except for a drastically reduced offering.

Even a new guy can see the abundance of black 302's & AE 40's on the market. They certainly are not rare and not even scarce so what gives? The availability does not justify the prices being asked in MHO. MANY of these phones go unsold and in some cases many times over. As with any collectable the buyer always has the option of saying no. As a seller I want to offer my product at a price that stimulates the buyer. Of course I do understand the authentic, well done, refurbishing job where folks invest time, money, and experience but I do not understand the seller that does not even bother to wipe the item down before presenting it for sale let alone offering damaged phones like they were some kind of historical artifact.

I would like to hear any feedback  from you folks that have been at this "phone stuff" for many years and have seen the evolution of prices over a longer time span.

Cheers...... Ell

Doug Rose

#1
Ell....like Real Estate used to be....location location location, with old anything its condition condition condition.

Yes the 302 was made by WE for over 15 years and was the Workhorse of WE. Like the signs you collect, do you want a phone that shows the ravages of age or do you want one that displays like its new. Do you wanted it in its real finish or buffed to a finger print leaving shine, or will you be satisfied if its painted?

Do you want it to work? That great WE brass gong ring. Do you care if the cords are reproduction. Is it important that the dates match on the phone, that it has not been touched by a tech in the field or a refurber in all these years. Is the porcelain dial plate condition a big deal. Is a plastic cover okay with you? Can you live with that big crack on the corner?

Maybe all 302s were created equal, but they certainly are not now. A good working 302 in displayable condition should call for around $100. If you want to do the work, you can find them forless, but that is a crap shoot. All dates matching will be higher. If you can live with repro parts and not so minor wear, you can get them a lot cheaper.

The old saying, you get what you pay for. The WE 302 is my favorite phone and even thought I am not a spring chicken, I do not remember one realative having one. Everyone had 500 set....Doug
Kidphone

Signguy

..... A good working 302 in displayable condition should call for around $100...

Hi Doug

I totally agree with your assesment of what one is looking for pertaining to any quality  collectable.  Having said that a barely displayable 302 does not  appear, at least to me, to justify that price. As I said previously I understand the authentic like new examples but am turned off by the seller that asks an unreasonable price  and does not  even have the courtesy to make the item presentable for sale.

I love the phrase  ...." I have not cleaned the item but will leave that for the new owner".... To me that translates to... "I'm to lazy to do anything except try to get your money"...

Cheers...... Ell

Doug Rose

Being a seller as well as a buyer, I will spend the time to clean a 302 up, make it work and guarantee that it works when it comes out of the box. That does take a lot of time and will not or should not be the same price as the seller who expects the same amount for an untested 302 that was found at a yard sale. I am familiar enough with a 302, that I can get it to work.

If it were a clock or a record player, I wouldn't touch it. I would leave it as is and let the new owner do the work. Not a matter of being lazy, it is a lack of knowledge and only 24 hours in a day. I don't have the time to research it on line.

With most eBay sellers. myself included; this is our second job. I still have a 12 hour day commuting and working, so time is a major concern. I sell because I have to have the added income, not because I want to.

I hope buyers don't confuse laziness with a lack of time. All I can say is... try it. It is a sh*tload of work and I have Janet who does dirty end of eBay. Invoices...packing...PO/FedEx...Customer Service (don't get me started).

Until you sell on eBay weekly and list between 15 and 20 on average a week, no one knows what it undertakes.

As for the AE40.....TERRY!!.......Doug
Kidphone

Signguy

 Doug...
I have sold  on ebay and if I could not present the item in the best possible light I did not list it. Time constraints do not equate to shoddy salesmanship.

I see your love for this hobby so I assume your sales reflect a high standard.

Cheers..... Ell

PS..... Commuting sucks! Of course out here a 1 hour commute gets you about 80 miles ..LOL

Tom B

I have to say that Doug's comments make a lot of common sense. And.... you get what you pay for, unless you've done your research and you get lucky. A lot of eBay sellers present something that they have happened upon and, without any effort or time taken on their part to suss what they actually have, want to get rid of. You, as a buyer (with research and a bit of luck), can score big time.
I personally have done very well with buying phones - a little research and patience goes a long, long way.
Tom

Signguy

#6
Tom

Absolutely true when talking about OTHER  phones....  BUT, I guess we are getting away from the original question. .... Re: Price of black 302's & AE 40's....
The supply of thse phones in no why justifies the prices. They are not rare, they are not scarce.  If they were such a good buy why are so many of them put back on ebay again and again at  prices that do not reflect their availability?

Cheers.... Ell

AE_Collector

Quote from: Doug Rose on December 31, 2011, 12:09:02 PMAs for the AE40.....TERRY!!.......Doug

I am pretty sure everything you said about WE 302's goes for AE 40's as well. They are plentiful in "As Is" condition for $20 to $60 depending on condition and how they are equipped. To take a $50 or $60 "As Is" AE40 with chrome up to a $229 Plug and Play restored AE40 probably takes 10 or more hours of labor plus parts so the seller would get maybe $15 an hour for his work IF listing and selling on ebaY were FREE!

Also, to explain what some sellers think their "As Is" phone is worth, they don't know anything about them so they look at what other sellers on ebaY are asking and set their price. Of course they explain the differences between their "as is" phone and the restored one thay see listed on ebaY for $249 by noting that they haven't cleaned theirs off and are leaving that for the buyer to do.

Terry

Tom B

#8
Ell
No - the same applies to any type/model of telephone. I own 3 302 telephones; an all dates matching thermoplastic 1950 in mint condition (cost $19) a metal case all dates matching late 1941/January 1942 in fantastic condition ($49) and a Signal Corps all dates matching thermoplastic case manual 302 also in great condition from 10/42 ($12).
And all in perfect working condition
Tom

HarrySmith

The very first phone I sold on eBay was a black plastic 302. I was new to phones and do not remember the dates on it. I picked it up from Craigslist in a large box of 13 phones and parts for $130.00. Guess I paid a little less than $10.00 for it. I was very dirty, non functioning with a cut line cord and handset cord, no handset. I cleaned it up, installed a NOS F1W with cloth cord (purchased from Steve Hilsz for around $16.00).  I had about $26.00 and around 10 hours invested in it. Polished up nice and worked with some wiring mods. I started it at $50.00 and it sold for $142.00 to a guy in Europe. I have seen some real nice clean original 302's sell for very little, $30-40 and some junk ones go for hundreds. No rhyme or reason to eBay pricing as far as I can tell. I have also noted all those expensive "rare" black "Lucy Phones" that get relisted over and over. The best place for picking up phones at reasonable prices I have found is phone shows. Still some overpriced stuff there but not a lot. Shows are all over the country, including Canada. Craigslist is a good source but very hit and miss. There was a site that would search all of Craigslist that was shutdown but I used it a few times, found dozens of cheap phones, contacted sellers to ask if they would ship and got a few good ones that way.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

bingster

A few points I agree with, and a few, I respectfully don't.  One thing to remember is that prices on ebay don't necessarily reflect an item's true value, but what the seller thinks the value is.  One example is the Imperial 202 that was listed BIN for a couple years.  The seller laid it on a scanner, and scanned it rather than use a photo.  As I recall, they wanted $250 (down from something like $400), and claimed that it was a bargain, because it was genuine 24K gold plated, and one "recently sold on ebay" for $600.  The phone was in terrible shape, chippy painted handset, great loss of goldtone finish, frayed cords, etc.  It was a $50 phone at most.  But lack of knowledge causes delusions of grandeur.  The same lack of knowledge causes sellers to search for similar phones, and finding the incredible restorations by the uber-restorers, they believe their filthy, basement-fresh version just must be worth a similar amount.  

It's sort of like the folks who ask for a hundred dollars for a 78RPM recording of Bing Crosby's White Christmas.  They think, it's so incredibly famous that it must be worth a fortune. Truth is, it's probably the single most worthless 78RPM record, because millions of them are still in circulation.  

Commonality never equals monetary value, and for that reason, an average, displayable 302 or AE40 has an actual value of $20 to $40.  Sure, there are many (very many, in fact) ebay sellers who ask for much more than that, but such common phones rarely ever actually sell for those high, asked-for amounts.
= DARRIN =



GG



There are also "chaotic" (in the science/math sense of the term) price fluctuations, whereby various types will oscillate between cheap and expensive with no apparent pattern.  This is a well known phenomenon of markets. 

Personally I look for phones that are "as found."  I've been doing refurb jobs on old phone sets since high school so I'd rather do it myself. 

Also if someone doesn't know how to do it correctly, and doesn't want to take the time to learn, IMHO it's better if they just list the item "as is," preferably with a decent number of photos to make it possible to determine condition. 

As for the foolish people with delusional dollar signs in their eyes, someone really needs to start sending them "get real" messages.  "Dear seller: that's a nice toad you have there, but it's not a kiss away from becoming a Prince Charming." 

Doug Rose

Then again....if you look hard and are kind of lucky, you can catch a deal...Doug

http://tinyurl.com/7ba7zhz
Kidphone

GG



Doug, you seem to have a magical ability to find good 302s. 

That one looks to me like it could be Northern Electric: the dial number plate appears to have the digits in black, which I vaguely remember was done by NE at a later point in time, and could have been used as a replacement part during telco refurb. 



TelePlay

Nice find, Doug, but I don't understand why no one semes to have wanted this little fixer upper gem at $42 plus $13 in shipping.  ;D

And, it comes with a magic (one or two) piece handset cord.

Wonder why . . . ?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/110800496098