I found this phone last week on ebay. Nobody had bid on it, so I contacted the seller after the auction and worked out an arrangement to but it from her. I t is here now, and I am trying to learn more about it. The color does not really look like ivory, but more like a light beige. I do not believe that it is discolored ivory because the inside of the shell is about the same color as the outside. The paint job appears to be from the factory because there are no signs of it having ever been painted a different color (there are a number of large chips and no other paint visible), and the "H 1" on the inside of the shell is clearly visible and not painted over. The base, ringer, coil, dial, receiver and transmitter are dated in 1940. The cords are from 1955. The line cord is vinyl and looks like it was installed by an amateur because of the knot inside the shell white adhesive tape wrapped around both ends. It is about the same color as the phone. The handset cord is coiled cloth. The handset is brown solid bakelite and has no groove. The plungers, dial (5H), and finger wheel are black. I expect to replace the dial with one which has white sides, and I would like to find a clear finger wheel and the hardware for attaching it.
The phone likely spent its life in Wellesley, MA (in a very upscale neighborhood).
Picture from the ebay listing:
(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss74/LarryinMichigan/Beige302/ebayPic.jpg)
The handset on the right edge is an ivory painted F1 from a WE Imperial (lamp) for color comparison, though the color appear more different in person than they seem in the picture:
(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss74/LarryinMichigan/Beige302/Front.jpg)
(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss74/LarryinMichigan/Beige302/InsideShell.jpg)
(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss74/LarryinMichigan/Beige302/Handset.jpg)
(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss74/LarryinMichigan/Beige302/Base.jpg)
Larry
I remember this phone. I did not bid because of the dial and the plungers, and the color seemed off. If I had known about the brown handset I may have been swayed, I think that makes the deal even if the paint job is not legit.
I'd say that's probably an original finish. The brown handsets were reserved for painted sets at that time, so the handset at least would have certainly been painted. Couple that with the fact that the interior bears no black paint and it matches the handset, and I'd say it's a lock that this one is an original ivory painted set, made before the colored plastic sets became common. The dial is odd, so that may be unoriginal, but the rest looks just as it should to me. If you have an chipped up aluminum fingerwheel, you could strip the remaining paint and give it a brushed finish, which would come close to the type colored sets had before clear fingerwheels came out.
I just noticed that I had omitted the picture of the inside of the shell, so I added it to the original post. I paid $60 plus $14.50 shipping for the phone.
I do have a chipped black metal finger wheel which I could use, but the black finish seems to extremely difficult to remove. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to remove the finish?
Larry
It seems to come off the aluminum wheels much more easily than the steel or brass wheels. If you want to go that route, the originals had a brushed finish to them, so you could just sand the paint off and get your brushed finish all in one step.
I spoke with Mark Scola about this phone after Larry had sent me the eBay listing after the fact. Mark suggested that it may have originally been a manual phone, with a matching dial blank. Someone then added the dial. Would that switch assembly be a proper one for a dial blank?
Referring again to my old D1/E1 set that has original Ivory paint...this has the brushed aluminum finger wheel. This phone is dated from 1937. The paint jobs look similar and the E1 handset is also brown Bakelite.
Larry...its funny, that phone is about 15 minutes away from me. I contacted the seller after the first listing, offering to buy it and pick it up the same day. NO. Contacted them again after the second auction ended. She told me she was going to re-list it. I wondered where it went. Nice phone. Loved the Ivory curly cord and the brown bakelite handset. Seller said it was found in their attic when they bought the house. The black finger wheel and the black plunger was a concern that someone might have tampered with it after WE sent it out. I would guess the finger wheel would be clear on a 5J with clear plungers from the refurb by WE in the mid 50s. Still a real nice phone, you offered $5 more than I did...Doug
Quote from: Dennis Markham on December 28, 2010, 12:01:16 AM
I spoke with Mark Scola about this phone after Larry had sent me the eBay listing after the fact. Mark suggested that it may have originally been a manual phone, with a matching dial blank. Someone then added the dial. Would that switch assembly be a proper one for a dial blank?
Referring again to my old D1/E1 set that has original Ivory paint...this has the brushed aluminum finger wheel. This phone is dated from 1937. The paint jobs look similar and the E1 handset is also brown Bakelite.
Dennis....where your 202 has a 4J, my guess it would have had a thick clear finger wheel with the "X" flange to secure it. This type was found a pre war Ivory 302 that was on the Forum recently. I'm sure that finding that thick clear finger wheel was next to impossible if the one on your phone was damaged, so the metal finger wheel was added by Bob or whoever Bob bought it from. As you know, the 4J is a really tough dial to find and your phone is stunning. My guess on Larry's 302 is someone removed the 5J and the clear plungers and added the 5H and the black plungers...Doug
Doug,
I contacted the seller shortly after the auction ended and offered her $55. She replied that she was committed to selling through ebay and offered to relist it as a BIN for $60. I agreed, and we arranged a time for he to list it and notify me, and I bought it as soon as I received her notification. I guess that I just beat you to it. It's a good thing that you didn't have Janet handling it for you :)
She follwed my packing instructions and packed it wery well. I suspected that it had come from her house. Her return adress is in a very fancy neighborhood of huge old houses on large lots. Most of the houses listed there are in the $2.6M area, which may not seem like alot in MA, but that could buy two whole blocks of houses in my neighborhood.
I do plan to replace the dial with a 5J. I am trying to sand the black finish off of a chipped aluminum finger wheel, but it is becoming a difficult and messy project.
Larry
I just replaced the dial with a 5J and used a stripped aluminum finger wheel. I do not have clear plungers, so the black ones will need to stay for now. I cleaned the cords (Woolite soak and scrub for the cloth handset cord) and carefully cleaned the shell and handset so as not to destroy the paint. Here is a new picture. The phone also works well.
(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss74/LarryinMichigan/Beige302/NewDial.jpg)
Larry
Larry....Ray Kotke used to sell clear plungers for $10 a set, they are very good repros. Let me check to see if I have a clear open face finger wheel when I get home from work. Looks great, it will look much better with a clear fingerwheel IMHO. J dials were meant to have a clear fingerwheel....Doug
Larry, it does look a whole lot better without the black finger wheel. The cords cleaned up nice. Nice phone! You've been busy as a beaver doing all of that.
The removal of the black dial and fingerwheel certainly does improve the appearance. A clear finger wheel would look even better. I could possibly steal a clear finger wheel from a 1955 WE 500, but I do not have the pieces to mount it to a #5 dial. (My phone and) I would be most grateful for any parts which would make it look better. If anyone would like to send a blue or green 302 to keep it company, we would also be most appreciative ;)
Larry
Hey Larry
Nice piece - I don't feel so guilty about the Med Blue 500 now. Good job ;)
Larry, I have plenty of adapters for converting the #7 dials, but not the #5's (and earlier). As you know the opening is horizontal on the 7's and vertical on the earlier ones. I might even have an extra open face finger wheel for a #7 dial but we'd need that adapter.
Larry....Dennis is correct, even if I have the #5 clear fingerwheel, I do not have the flange to mount it. A WE 6D also has white painted edges and is a more than acceptable replacement for a 5J. 6Ds are found in color 302s as well as the 5Js....Doug
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on December 27, 2010, 10:21:09 PM
I just noticed that I had omitted the picture of the inside of the shell, so I added it to the original post. I paid $60 plus $14.50 shipping for the phone.
I do have a chipped black metal finger wheel which I could use, but the black finish seems to extremely difficult to remove. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to remove the finish?
Larry
Yeah, I learned the hard way, remember that 5302 original paint I dissolved in CLR?
Oh, I should have tried that. I did it the hard way with a few types of sandpaper and some rotary tools. It made quite a mess. I think I have another one somewhere which is chipped so much that it needs to be stripped. I will have to remember to try CLR, or maybe that only works on things that you don't want to remove ;D
BTW, a friend called while I was sitting here, and I answered the call with this phone, so it has now had its official initiation :) To be honest, I don't think the ivory phone sounds any different than the black ;D
Larry
Hey Larry....I don't have any open face finger wheels. It really looks much better with the burnished aluminum. The cord came out superb, that's what I wanted from it, its worth the $60 you spent right there. I think it looks great, I'll keep an eye out for a WE 6D. If you have a working WE 6A, paint the outside white. I have all the mounting hardward for it. An open face for a #6 turns up much more frequent than one for a #5. Real nice phone, I'm l glad it found a good home. You have my vote for find of the month, even though you stole it from my backyard!!......Doug
Thank you for all of the information and help. I have another question about this phone. Would touching up the chips with matching paint hurt the value? There are many chips on the shell and handset, especially where the handset caps rubbed against the sides of the shell. I am thinking about trying to find closely matching paint and touching up the shipped areas to make the phone look better, but I would hate to ruin its value.
Larry