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Gray Silver Dollar Coin Collector

Started by Ktownphoneco, January 04, 2019, 10:19:51 PM

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Ktownphoneco

Good Evening All  ....   I was in Edmonton, Alberta over Christmas visiting family, and had an opportunity to visit the Edmonton Telephone Historical Center.    I discovered that the museum had on display and old Gray Silver Dollar coin collector in pretty much mint condition.     In all the years of collecting and restoring old telephones, I've never actually seen a beautiful set.  It was on loan from the Royal Alberta Museum.      I've attached 2 photos, one of the set itself, and one of the display card associated to the set.     Note the numbered and beveled transmitter face plate.    A beautifully made pay station.   Sorry for the grain in the enlargements.     The only camera I had was my Son's iPhone.     Click and double click to enlarge.     

Have a great weekend.

Jeff Lamb

Key2871

Wow, that is mint. What a nice phone, was it refinished or is it all original? That is a beautiful phone..

Ken
KEN


Key2871

KEN

Ktownphoneco

Quote from: Payphone installer on January 05, 2019, 08:34:42 AM
It is a reproduction.

Doubt it.    I think it's been restored and refinished, but I rather doubt that the Royal Museum of Alberta would display a reproduction set without stating the fact that it's a replica.     There is enough dark discoloration around some of the machine screw heads to indicate that screws were positioned there for a long time.    Can you post and explain to the rest of us why it's a reproduction ?    Perhaps you could post some pictures of the authentic silver dollar coin collector your using for comparison purposes.    Anyone can post "It's a reproduction" and walk away, but in order to hep the rest of us identify and be able to spot a reproduction in the future, an explanation of what you see that's telling you that would be of great help to the rest of us.    Thank you.

Jeff Lamb

rdelius

Some things look "fishy" to me.No crank eusc. Shelf has screws holding it down instead of concealed inside. Beveled edges of shelf seem too sharp  .SC receiver WE? tx. Where is the dovetailing?.Not sure what brand top box is but not WE, Kellogg ,SC

HarrySmith

I am questioning the information card. On one line "Gray" is mis-spelled "Gary". This seems to be out of character for a museum, I would guess they had someone proof reading the info they gave to the public. Also the sign states the complany was bought out by Automatic Electric, no metion of Western Electric.

As a side note while searching for info on the sale to AE, I came across one site that had a sign that is in Hartford Conn marking the "first" payhone installation site.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

Jim Stettler

The slots look
Quote from: rdelius on January 05, 2019, 11:45:50 AM
Some things look "fishy" to me.No crank eusc. Shelf has screws holding it down instead of concealed inside. Beveled edges of shelf seem too sharp  .SC receiver WE? tx. Where is the dovetailing?.Not sure what brand top box is but not WE, Kellogg ,SC
The slots look like repro ones I have seen at shows. I think this was assembled as an example of a silver dollar paystations.
Many times museum phones aren't accurate. Sometimes they don't know, sometimes they museums are looking for an example to illustrate the phone, in that case a repro fills the need at an affordable price. When Sprint sponsored the museum  of Independent Telephony in Kansas. They bought more than 1 repro.
Many of the mostly original  telephones in that museum have gotten "backdated/corrected" with proper parts by the collectors that attend the KS show.
The KS museum understands that the collectors know what is proper.
Some other museums think they are the experts and the collectors don't know.
Just my observations/opinions,
Jim S.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Jim Stettler

#8
(modified post)
Regarding museums.
Most liquid transmitters at museums don't show the transmitter in a working state.
It is because the original model at the Smithsonian was displayed wrong. In 1976 the Smithsonian commissioned copies of Bells original models. I suspect the current displayed model is shown in a working state.

The photo shows the nut in between the cup and the bottom.
>The working state is with the nut tightened tight against the bottom cup and then slightly backed off (my recollection)<.
Looking at photos on google- they all seem to show the nut all the way to the bottom. It is possible that this is the proper way, I would have to re-read the notebook.
Either way the notebook mentions tightening the nut then backing it off. The photocopy that the Smithsonian sent with the pieces showed the nut in the middle of the threads.

This proper spot can be determined by reading Bell's notebook about the liquid transmitter. and the adjustment he made to get it to work.


Jim S.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

rdelius

AE did not buy the Gray company, only the Paystation division in 1948. Gray Research contuned to build broadcast equipment such as turntables and tone arms. They developed a wooden tone arm called Micro trak .I think the company changed it's name to Micro trak


Payphone installer

#11
Real one

Key2871

#12
You guys have sharp eyes, then again I'm looking on a very small screen on my phone.
But true, no dove tails not even a box joint. I didn't even notice Gary and not Gray. But Jim, that's one nice phone!
I do see four screws on the top of the lower part where Jim's has four. Plus the execution for the captive screw in on the left of Jim's, and the other is on the right. And the coin plate looks stamped or engraved, definitely different than Jim' Beautiful Jim what a rare, and nice piece.

Ken
KEN

Ktownphoneco

Thanks Payphone Installer, rdelius, Jim and Harry.     THAT's what I was looking for.  As I mentioned in my original post, I've never seen one of these live and in person, and I can't recall ever having seen a picture.   Now that all of the inaccuracies have been pointed out, I see where the issues are that point to a reproduction, or knock off set.      I put too much trust in the fact that the set came out of a well respected museum, and made the assumption they would have authenticated the exhibit before putting it on public display.  It also caused me to overlook the obvious lack of finger joints in the top box, which in most cases is a big red flag.    I won't make that mistake twice.    I plan on contacting the museum and let them know what they actually have, whether they like it or not.   I'm quite sure the vast majority of people who see exhibits in museums, make the automatic assumption the display is fully authenticated, and what they are looking at is the real deal.

My apologies for posting a misleading anyone.

Jeff Lamb