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Best Oil/Lubricant? for dial.

Started by HowardPgh, November 09, 2012, 10:50:49 AM

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Key2871

Exactly Harry, I learned the hard way. But I learned.
And no I haven't tried using an ultrasonic cleaner to do dials.
Simply because I don't really do that many dials, or anything that I need that type of machine.
KEN

HarrySmith

I was looking at the ultrasonic cleaners also but as you said, I don't do that many dials to justify the cost. If I could find one a whole phone case would fit in for cheap I might try that.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

Contempra

You can find some used ultrasonic cleaners easily and that machine will clean very well all pieces from a dial without problem . With this machine , you can clean a lot of things like small tools removing all rust and grease . Anyway, when i I will have a chance to try a machine like that, I will see what it does, I know that some people use this kind of machine to clean small tools and other trinkets.
Denis

FABphones

#48
Quote from: HarrySmith on January 02, 2020, 06:56:48 AM
...Also WD 40 is not good to use for dials. It has it's uses, removing stickers is one thing it works well for. It is meant for Water Dispersment, hence the name, it was the 40th formula developed to get rid of moisture.

I never knew that 40th formula bit. Very good.   :D

-----

Re Ultrasonic cleaners, I have one - thread here:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?&topic=23055.0
...with a nice photo showing inside the Ultrasonic bath (after cleaning a dial which was placed in it without disassembly), and the grime residue which came off it.
BUT
Thanks to some great tutoring, I have since started to disassemble/reassemble dials. The grime that gets caught up inside a none-disassembled dial has nowhere to go, and cannot be released by Ultrasonic cleaning. It has to be seen to be believed. Those tinyist fragments which have nowhere to go can make all the difference. I think the best clean will always be a strip clean.
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************

HarrySmith

How big is the inside part of that machine?
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

FABphones

Quote from: HarrySmith on January 02, 2020, 05:02:01 PM
How big is the inside part of that machine?

It is the 2 litre model, the tank is 14cm x 15cm x 10cm deep.
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************

Contempra

Quote from: FABphones

Re Ultrasonic cleaners, I have one - thread here:
url="http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?&topic=23055.0"]http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?&topic=23055.0[/url]
...with a nice photo showing inside the Ultrasonic bath (after cleaning a dial which was placed in it without disassembly), and the grime residue which came off it.
BUT
Thanks to some great tutoring, I have since started to disassemble/reassemble dials. The grime that gets caught up inside a none-disassembled dial has nowhere to go, and cannot be released by Ultrasonic cleaning. It has to be seen to be believed. Those tinyist fragments which have nowhere to go can make all the difference. I think the best clean will always be a strip clean.

hummm,.. When I talk about cleaning a dial in an ultrasonic cleaner, I meant disassembling the dial to pieces and putting everything in the ultrasonic cleaner. Never put the fully assembled dial in the ultrasonic cleaner as everything will not be completely cleaned. ;)
Denis

Jack Ryan

Quote from: Contempra on January 02, 2020, 07:57:06 PM
hummm,.. When I talk about cleaning a dial in an ultrasonic cleaner, I meant disassembling the dial to pieces and putting everything in the ultrasonic cleaner. Never put the fully assembled dial in the ultrasonic cleaner as everything will not be completely cleaned. ;)

The good thing about ultrasonic cleaning is that you can do just that - clean a dial without disassembly.

I did some tests for a series of articles that involved:

1. Remove the dial card and dust cover (if there is one) of a dirty, sticking dial
2. Ultrasonic clean
3. Lubricate and test the dial
4. Disassemble the dial looking for areas that weren't cleaned

What I found was:

1. If the dial was mechanically sound and properly adjusted, no further work was needed - the dial was good to go.
2. If the dial was mechanically sound but poorly adjusted, the dial was good to go after adjustment.
3. Dials that were not mechanically sound were clean but pretty useless. Disassembling first would not have helped.

There was often some grime remaining on the main shaft but not enough to affect performance. Dials with mechanical issues generally had badly worn bearings - sometimes governor shaft end-play adjustment helped, sometimes not.

Jack

rdelius

I would remove some main parts such as main shafts off of dials when ultrasonic cleaning was done. That way I could lubricate these  hard to get places. You can get a cheap cleaner at harbor Fright  tools. Used L&R cleaning chemicals and watch oil on the dials

MaximRecoil

#54
Quote from: TelePlay on April 22, 2014, 09:23:02 PM3M 08897 Silicone Lubricant (Dry Type) ( not recommended )

Not recommended by who? My dial that I used that on still works perfectly fine 4 years later. If you're referring to the images in posts 37 and 38, those are talking about silicone oils and greases that can migrate/creep onto electrical contacts and/or the governor. I said in my original post:

QuoteAlso, keep the silicone spray away from the leaf switch contacts. It might not prevent them from working, but it certainly won't help them, because silicone isn't a conductor.

And while oils and greases of any kind can migrate/creep, dry silicone can't at all. Ideally you should wipe it dry after applying it (that's what the instructions on the can say to do), but the carrier fluid will also dry on its own if you don't wipe it off.

I just took a video of the dial returning from 0 (see attachment). The dial's motion starts at the 1-second mark and ends at the 2.1-second mark, so 1.1 seconds for 10 pulses (plus or minus 1/30th of a second for the start and stop points because the frame rate of the video is 30 FPS). It's not dead on but I've never adjusted it either. I only cleaned it and lubricated certain parts of it with 3M dry silicone about 4 years ago. Before that it was hitchy and didn't sound very healthy. I got it from my older sister about 20 years ago. She had bought it for next to nothing at a yard sale a few years before that for her daughter (a toddler at the time) to play with as a toy, so I doubt that did it any favors.

MMikeJBenN27

Quote from: JorgeAmely on April 22, 2014, 12:01:12 AM3 in 1. Works fine all the time.
That's what I use, seems to work great.

Mike

TelePlay

Just for reference, I needed straight 20 weight oil to lubricate a fan motor and found out that is exactly what 3-1 Oil is. By comparison, dial grease is thicker and dial oil is thinner.
Yesterday eats you up, it eats everyone up . . .

RDPipes

Quote from: TelePlay on August 19, 2022, 10:10:19 AMJust for reference, I needed straight 20 weight oil to lubricate a fan motor and found out that is exactly what 3-1 Oil is. By comparison, dial grease is thicker and dial oil is thinner.
You never want to use standard (red & white bottle) 3 in one oil in a fan motor because its detergent oil.
Although there is a 3 in one you can use in the Blue & White bottle that is made for electric motors. Personally I use Zoom spout which is also made for electric motors and can be found at Lowes and other places.
The worst thing you can do , specially in an old electric motor is break loose the crud that's
keeping the bearings tight etc. And in electric motors that have wick type oilers the crud that
the detergent oil breaks loose with get stuck in the wick and eventually stop oil from flowing
to the bearings. 

TelePlay

Quote from: RDPipes on August 19, 2022, 10:58:58 AMYou never want to use standard (red & white bottle) 3 in one oil in a fan motor because its detergent oil . . . there is a 3 in one you can use in the Blue & White bottle that is made for electric motors. 

Guess I got it right, after reading the front label . . .  ;)

SAE 20 3-1 Oil Engineered for Motors.jpg

Could not take the motor apart. Actually, had a hard time getting to it. It was running dry (vibrating) after it warmed up, ran 10 minutes, but after using a 1/8" ID 18" long plastic tubing and a couple of applications to get oil somewhere near the front and rear shaft bearings, all is well. Will remember your advice next time I have to work on a motor (however, I have taken motors that would not turn apart and after cleaning them, used high temperature grease on the shafts and that worked well).

Anyway, the point I was making about 3-1 Oil is that being 20 weight oil it is too thin to use as dial grease on the mainspring shaft, too thick to penetrate the bearing points on the gear train and too thick to put on gear teeth (it's a thicker coating) to become a magnet for dust and dirt that turns to mud over time, as in the image below (it required a round toothpick to remove the mud that had turned very hard in the small gear that is on the axel that turns the governor worm gear) where the mud was so think and hard that the gear mesh became tight, clogged up, and greatly slowed down the dial speed.

Anybody can use anything they want, it's their phone. Everyone has their own pet oil that works for them for if didn't, why would they be using it? The other oils might work just fine but why use something other than dial grease and oil when both are readily available and inexpensive?
Yesterday eats you up, it eats everyone up . . .

MaximRecoil

Quote from: TelePlay on August 19, 2022, 02:39:57 PMAnyway, the point I was making about 3-1 Oil is that being 20 weight oil it is too thin to use as dial grease on the mainspring shaft, too thick to penetrate the bearing points on the gear train and too thick to put on gear teeth (it's a thicker coating) to become a magnet for dust and dirt that turns to mud over time, as in the image below (it required a round toothpick to remove the mud that had turned very hard in the small gear that is on the axel that turns the governor worm gear) where the mud was so think and hard that the gear mesh became tight, clogged up, and greatly slowed down the dial speed.

Any type of oil or grease will trap any dust/dirt that lands in it. It's not much of a concern in a normal home environment though, because while the dial mechanism isn't sealed anywhere near as well as, e.g., a typical mechanical watch mechanism (which usually has O-ring seals for water-resistance), it's still fairly well sheltered from normal dust in the air. Ones that get as gunked up as the one in your picture probably spent a lot of time in a dirty environment, somewhere like a factory or a mechanic's garage with a lot of dirty air blowing around all the time from things like fans, engine exhaust, and people blowing the dirt off things with a compressed air hose.