New Member. Questions about age of my W.E. 151AL

[CandlestickCollector]

Hello everyone. I am new to this forum and I recently purchased a Western Electric 151 AL candlestick telephone with a 634 BA wringer box. I bought it because I collect antique appliances from the 20s and 30s and my house just would not be complete without an original, functioning, candlestick telephone. I know that the 151 ALs were all converted from sidetone models to antisidetone models between the years of 1931 and 1941 and the new model name "151 AL" was stamped on them after the conversion. I found that my phone was originally a 51C because it is stamped on the back side of the transmitter mount and has a slash stamped over it. I also know that the 634 BA ringer box was made between 1931 and 1937. I would like some help narrowing down the date of mine further. Thanks.

-Cody

[Sargeguy]

Nice phone.  The network on your subset is dated 1940.  The phone was manufactured in the 1920s and converted sometime in the 1930s.  Unless there are some dates stamped on the parts it is difficult to say.  Candlesticks did not usually have date markings like newer phones have.  One clue is the notched dial plate.  Can you post a side view of the dial so we can see if the plate is a 132 notched or a later type?  The presence of the notch indicates that the conversion likely came about after the 202/D-1 was introduced in the early 30s.

[Kenton K]

I usually find dates on the transmitter diaphragm or on the transmitter back. The one on the diaphram is in quarter/year and the one on the back is usually spelled out.

Ken

[Sargeguy]

Good point.  That is true if they upgraded the transmitter, if left as is from the 20s it may not have a date.  Before you dismantle your transmitter, look on the strain reliefs of the receiver and subset cords and see if there is a date code, like II 40 or something. 

[unbeldi]

You want to look for various date stamps on the part, if present at all. Original manufacturing date is hard to determine but, likely in the second half of the 20s.
Your subscriber box was converted in 1940 as the induction coil bears that date. Your ringer in the subset is a high impedance type, also indicative of late 1930s or 1940s conversion.

Look for a refurbishing date stamp inside the transmitter, perhaps visible when unscrewing the mouth piece. Sometimes also the base got stamped inside.

The dial is original, being a 2AA, but the number plate has been replaced.

The 51C was a sidetone instrument for the tip-party station on a party line with two subscribers with message rate service. It was converted to "normal" service, but look at the hook switch, it may still have the extra contact springs that the 51C needed.

Looks like a nice telephone.

[Sargeguy]

Here is a thread with date ranges for various WE parts that might help narrow down the age:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11422.0

[poplar1]

There may be a date stamped on the ringer coils, visible from the back of the subset. The gongs are inverted and mounted without posts, so this indicates c. 1929 or later for the ringer. New metal subsets (other than certain ones for harmonic ringers) were phased out starting in 1930, but thousands of them were converted to 634As and 634BAs. There was even a kit for converting the subsets in the field without removing them from the wall.

151-AL conversions continued until at least 1948. However, since this one has the old receiver and transmitter, it was probably converted much earlier than that. The cloth cords have rubber conductors, which were used starting in the late 30s.

[unbeldi]

Your set also has a No. 61 filter installed to avoid radio interference from the dial. This is the little almost square metal can that is mounted between the two phenol contact plates.  These have a date embossed on the bottom side. You should be able to remove the screw that holds it on its mounting bracket and lift the unit out to look at the other side.

[CandlestickCollector]

Nice phone.  The network on your subset is dated 1940.  The phone was manufactured in the 1920s and converted sometime in the 1930s.  Unless there are some dates stamped on the parts it is difficult to say.  Candlesticks did not usually have date markings like newer phones have.  One clue is the notched dial plate.  Can you post a side view of the dial so we can see if the plate is a 132 notched or a later type?  The presence of the notch indicates that the conversion likely came about after the 202/D-1 was introduced in the early 30s.

Here is a side picture of the dial:

[poplar1]

That's a 164A number plate on the dial. The 164A was made starting in 2nd quarter 1954. They were standard on 6A dials but backward compatible for replacing worn out number plates on 2-, 4- and 5-type dials.

[CandlestickCollector]

That's a 164A number plate on the dial. The 164A was made starting in 2nd quarter 1954. They were standard on 6A dials but backward compatible for replacing worn out number plates on 2-, 4- and 5-type dials.

What would be the correct type of number plate for my dial?

[CandlestickCollector]

Your subscriber box was converted in 1940 as the induction coil bears that date. Your ringer in the subset is a high impedance type, also indicative of late 1930s or 1940s conversion.

If the subset is a 634 BA then that means that it was already made with the antisidetone circuit from the factory. Maybe the induction coil was updated in 1940 and the bell was updated. If I were to restore the subset back to its original, pre-updated condition, what kind of ringer and induction coil would I put in it? Did it originally have one of the longer induction coils with the wood ends?

[Sargeguy]

I wouldn't bother restoring it, I would buy a 534 in nice condition and use that instead.

[CandlestickCollector]

I wouldn't bother restoring it, I would buy a 534 in nice condition and use that instead.

Would that work with my phone? The phone is antisidetone and the 534 is sidetone.
I found a 634A antisidetone subset for sale that has the older style ringer and wood induction coil.

[unbeldi]

Your subscriber box was converted in 1940 as the induction coil bears that date. Your ringer in the subset is a high impedance type, also indicative of late 1930s or 1940s conversion.

If the subset is a 634 BA then that means that it was already made with the antisidetone circuit from the factory. Maybe the induction coil was updated in 1940 and the bell was updated. If I were to restore the subset back to its original, pre-updated condition, what kind of ringer and induction coil would I put in it? Did it originally have one of the longer induction coils with the wood ends?

I think that most of the 634A subsets were actually upgraded from a 534, that's where the large metal enclosure came from. The 1935 catalog doesn't even show new 634A subsets, only some of the other varieties. New telephone installations probably came equipped with a 684A or BA (later), which was available already in 1931.

I would not restore the subset, it is perfectly appropriate and legit for your stick.  Rather than finding parts to change, it's easier to find a 534 subset intact.   However, your stick is a anti-sidetone instrument so you need to stay with a 634 or 684 subset.