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1910? WE 317--HELP!

Started by nikeajax, January 31, 2012, 11:01:33 PM

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nikeajax

Hello all!  I found what I believe is a 1910 WE 317 this weekend: I need help!  Is there a book out there that will tell me the basics on restoration?  The gaskets(?) in the transmitter diaphragm are really brittle and falling all to pieces: are these made out of something special like flomuctomized-trisodiumreprobate :D, or can I use automotive gasket material?
I have more questions, but I'll just start with that...
Thanks,
Jaybird

Doug Rose

Jay....welcome to the Forum.....post a few pictures so we can get a better idea of what you have....Doug
Kidphone

nikeajax

Okay, how's this:



The gasket just looks like it's asbestos... The insulation on the holder-downers (did'ja like that?) is crumbling off, but one of them was glued down, it appears, to the gasket to keep it from walking around.

How often does that part in the middle need to be rotated: it looks to me like it needs to be turned periodically as it arcs forming oxidation-frosting, insulating it, thus keeping it from working: no?

Thanks,
Jaybird

dencins

The gasket on the diaphragm is rubber.  It has aged, dried out and become brittle.

No you do not turn the carbon module.  You will see a wire that connects the carbon module to the terminal block.  If you rotate the carbon module, you will break the wire and the transmitter will not function.

Also if you turn the diaphragm on that type of transmitter you will break the mica insulator that is used to insulate and as well as to hold the probe to the carbon module and the carbon granules will fall out.

I have not seen any type of oxidation on solid back transmitters that would cause them not to function.  The way they operate is the diaphragm vibrates from sound which causes the carbon granules to vibrate causes varying resistance in the module creating varying amperage to be transmitted.  This is how a carbon based transmitter works.

Dennis Hallworth

nikeajax

Dennis, thanks for the info: yes after pulling it apart CAREFULLY I did see that it's not something that gets turned.  I made a new inside gasket out of a rubber glove: it looks to me like the original gasket was something the diaphragm fit into like a tire and rim for lack of a better description.  Does the spring clip on the right in the image only need a rubber insulation so the diaphragm doesn't ground?  Also, the spring clip on the left of the image has what looks like felt where it makes contact on the diaphragm, is this correct?
Again thanks!
Jaybird

nikeajax

Oh, BTW it's a 317-P: so 1911?

Dan/Panther


The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

Dan/Panther

Also here is some work i did on a Kellog Grabaphonje reciever. Not the same but close any way.
D/P

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=158.0

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

nikeajax

Okay, here it is:



My wife and I were at a thrift/antique shop over the weekend and found it; it didn't have a price so we asked the guy... 56bux!  I'd been trying to find one for her for her birthday, and couldn't find anything under $100, so i think I did alright, no?

I figured out how I'll check my work: I have some West German-Army field phones that work the same way, so once it's back together, I'll pay out some wire and gab-away...

I'm going to leave mine "rustic" with only a good cleaning/oiling trying to get the paint and verdigris off.  I like the aged "Tiger Oak" look.

We bought a new-old house in May: it's a 1920 Spanish Revival style that had an unfortunate remuddle in the mid-1950's.  They took out all the original wood trim and light fixtures: there's a word that rhymes with truck that comes to mind... We're slowly getting it back to period: I successfully restored a late 1920's early 30's Spark Stove, made in Oakland, Ca, the next town up from us.

I think I'm only going to answer this phone, no dialing out... I see where someone used a six-volt lantern battery to power theirs, is this correct?  How long do they last?

Oh, should both spring clips have felt on them?

Again, thanks!
Jaybird

dencins

#9
I use black 1/4" heat shrink tubing on the ends of the springs.  The important thing is to insulate the spring from the diaphragm.  I have tried it with and without the felt cushions on the heat shrink tubing and could not notice any significant difference in performance of the transmitter.

I sent you a PM but you must not have gotten it.  Another option for the diaphragm gasket is a 3/4" cross section of a bicycle inner tube.  I use the Universal Inner Tube (1.75 - 2.125).

Dennis Hallworth

dencins

One other point is 2 D-cell batteries will work on this phone.  6 volts will work but it is a bit much voltage for the carbon in the transmiter.  The original WECo specs called for 3.0 volts for urban installations and 4.5 volts for rural installations.

Dennis Hallworth

nikeajax

New question: where do I get a condenser for this beast?  What is the value of it: can't I just use a modern electrolytic-capacitor in its place?  On further inspection, I realized there were screw holes that weren't being used, and with a quick glance at the wiring diagram... the condenser is gone!

Again, thanks!
Jaybird

dsk

The condenser was actually optional. http://alturl.com/kyh8c
The value of the condenser has to be a guess 1 (up to 2.2 ) µF rated at 200V or more will be fine.
It has to be unpolarised. The new one is small, so just let the old one be, and solder in the new one there, Then it will look more like original. (some are even emptying the tin, and putting in the new one there.)


More about the transmitter here: http://tinyurl.com/85j4zuo

dsk

nikeajax

So...wait... you're saying I don't actually need this: can you tell me why I might want it then, if I'm going to put one in?

Thanks,
Jaybird

dsk

This telephone was made as an "universal" telephone and could be put on various lines and exchanges. (Even on a common battery line.) When connected to a CB line the condenser was needed in series with the ringer to let the exchange know if it was on hook or off hook. This solution, just connecting a local battery telephone to (a normal) CB line was done in the early days. The DC current will travel through the receiver, and will after loooong time ruin the permanent magnets of the receiver. An other exchange which I only have read about, used a DC signal to engage a ring off signal, and the condenser was needed in series with the receiver.  With many phones on the same line the condenser in series with the ringer would help to reduce some of the loss of voice signal.

How are you planning to use your phone?

dsk