No keys on Western Electric 1D2 - how to open?

[timmerk]

This is my first post, so hello all!

I collect and restore payphones from the 70s-80s. My old highschool told me I could take their broken Western Electric 1D2, which I took by taking the whole pedestal with it. The problem is they had lost the keys years ago and I don't know how to remove the locks. I read on these forums that using a hammer drill on reverse might vibrate the lock screws loose, but I wasn't sure if that only works on the older 3-slot payphones, or if the same method would work on a 1D2 with 30C and 29B locks. I also read on another site that drilling the locks won't have any effect. Any ideas or recommendations?

Thanks!

[Tonyrotary]

Welcome to the forum! I don't have an answer, but I am sure someone here does and will post it soon. I would like to get a payphone one day. Good luck!

[gpo706]

You could try emailing one of the payphone vendors on the bay and asking their advise.

They could probably even supply a replacement lock(s)

[timmerk]

I've asked a few vendors, but they always say they had keys. I actually have replacement locks ready to go, if I ever open up the phone  :-)

[DavePEI]

I've asked a few vendors, but they always say they had keys. I actually have replacement locks ready to go, if I ever open up the phone  :-)

I have drilled out payphone locks before, but it is an option you want to avoid if you can. The worst I ever drilled, was a lock on a NT Millennium phone (Medeco lock) - it was reenforced to the hilt. If you do try it, make sure to thickly mask the area around the lock with a thick layer of masking tape to prevent marking the phone if the bit slips, and use Molybdenum or Titanium bits. Do try the hammer drill approach. It did work for me on one Centurion. Just sit it on top of the lock and let it rattle away.

The Millennium lock took hours to drill, due to its reinforcement.

On an older 3 slot, it is possible to get in though the back of the phone if there is no coin box in it - just unscrew the lock bolts after you are in, but this won't work on a 1D2.

Drill as your last option.

Dave

[Phonesrfun]

There is a guy named Jeremy Walters that has some of these payphones.  I bought one from him a couple years ago.  He may have a key, or can tell you what to do.  You might just be stuck with drilling it out like Dave just mentioned.

Send me an e-mail to the address in my profile, and I will send you back Jeremy's e-mail address.

-Bill

[Bill]

If you Google "tubular lock pick", you will get hundreds of how-to-do-it hits. I point this out only to indicate that any competent locksmith should be able to open this quite quickly.

Bill

[timmerk]

Thanks Bill, but actually it's not a tubular/cylinder lock. It's one of these:

http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/wecolock/

Apparently only one person has ever been able to pick them.

[timmerk]

The worst I ever drilled, was a lock on a NT Millennium phone (Medeco lock) - it was reenforced to the hilt. If you do try it, make sure to thickly mask the area around the lock with a thick layer of masking tape to prevent marking the phone if the bit slips, and use Molybdenum or Titanium bits.

Thanks for the reply. What size drill bit do you recommend? Something the same width as the lock, slightly smaller, or a lot smaller?

[Jim Stettler]

Upper locks on Single slot payphones were usually Regionally coded (typically by state).
Contact Paul Vaverchak for an upper key for your state.

Paul will also break into a payphone for you but you have to ship to PA and back.

He has a collection of master keys to open the phones and he may have be able to make you a key.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The drill trick is a very small hardened bit (inserted reversed in the chuck).
Use a hammer drill and hammer the lock till the harden screws vibrate out of the hardened threads.

This method ruins the lock and possibly the vault.

I have only heard of it being used on 3 slot phones.
-------------------------------------------

Jim S.

Paul's wife is on Ebay. I am sure someone knows her handel.

[DavePEI]

Thanks for the reply. What size drill bit do you recommend? Something the same width as the lock, slightly smaller, or a lot smaller?

The most important thing is to start the hole in the center of the lock cylinder, Then if you can to gradually increase the until you can remove the pins from the cylinder - this will keep you centered. Once they are gone, you should be able to unlock it.

I should have asked - does your phone have one or two locks? Often, you will find the upper locks are keyed in common with other telephones of the same type. If that is the case with these, Jeremy might be able to help you out. If this is the case, the only lock you may have to drill is the lock on the coin box plate.

Do, though try the impact drill and reversed bit first. Even if you don't have one yourself, borrow one and give it a try before endeavoring on a drilling mission. I think, because of the type of mount on a 1A2 lock, that it might come free with a hammer drill. See:

http://www.porticus.org/bell/telephones-payphones-modern.html

I don't expect yours will be as tough as the Millennium's Medeco - on a Medeco, to resist drilling, hardened steel inserts are used to protect critical areas of the plug face, shell and sidebar. Additional drill resistance is provided by hardened steel rods inside the bottom pins and selective use of hardened steel top pins. Hit one of those pins, and it is almost guaranteed your drill will  stall or break. That is why it took so long to remove my Millennium lock.

You will completely destroy the lock, and make sure you protect the area around the lock. It is amazing how much the drill wants to slip in that hardened steel. Drill only as a last effort. I imagine the 1A2 locks are almost as difficult as the Medeco locks to drill.

If you have a friendly neighborhood locksmith, challenge him to see if he can open it if a hammer drill doesn't work. The Medeco locks are virtually impossible to pick, as the pins are angles, and don't give feedback to the picker, but these shouldn't be as bad.

Dave

[timmerk]

I should have asked - does your phone have one or two locks? Often, you will find the upper locks are keyed in common with other telephones of the same type.

It has two locks - one a 30C (for the vault door), and one a 29B (for the upper housing). I'm not sure if AT&T serviced the payphone when it was at my old highschool, or if the school serviced it. I mention this because there might not be a regional key if it was school owned and operated.

[GG]

The probability that anyone can pick those locks is approximately zero.  I'd start by asking if Paul could match the keys.   Drilling really is a last resort:  Once you start there is no going back, and if you slip with the drill you can end up destroying internal components of the phone.  Kinda' like going to war against a lunatic despot: precision is essential to avoid innocent casualties, and once you start you have to finish the job or you end up with something worse on your hands. 

Sheesh, WE scores another home run again!  And wouldn't it be nice if those locks were available in some kind of package for installation on residential and commercial doors. 

The English lock here: http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/bramah/   is reported to be amazingly good and still holds up a couple hundred years after it was invented. 

Speaking of things English, anyone have any suggestions for replacement locks for English payphones?  I have a few around that are minus locks.  One is a "renter's payphone" (bright red), one is the equivalent of a Fortress Phone (black, and weighs about 50 lbs.), and one is a POA coinbox intended to be mounted next to a 700-series wallphone.   Worse comes to worse I could just put metal plug covers in the holes, which of course has the advantage of no keys to loose : - )

Also an email address for Paul would be helpful, I have an AE 3-slot for which I've managed to lose one of the keys and could benefit from having new locks installed or correct keys provided. 

[gpo706]

Speaking of things English, anyone have any suggestions for replacement locks for English payphones?  I have a few around that are minus locks.  One is a "renter's payphone" (bright red), one is the equivalent of a Fortress Phone (black, and weighs about 50 lbs.), and one is a POA coinbox intended to be mounted next to a 700-series wallphone.   Worse comes to worse I could just put metal plug covers in the holes, which of course has the advantage of no keys to loose : - )

GG sometimes thes elocks come up on ebayUK, failing that try "telephonelines" they have shedloads of bits.

[GG]

Yo GPO: yes, Telephonelines, from whom I got the red payphone.  That phone was in transit on 11 September 2001, but it got through OK (I can imagine the look on the security guys' faces).  I would think that if they had locks for those, they would have advertised them, but maybe I should just ask. 

I wonder if they have the original cloth-covered cords for the 706 handsets?  I have a couple of early Ericsson 706s of that vintage, which might look nice with that handset cord on it.  Both are two-tone gray, so I might convert one to two-tone green if I can find the parts. 

The black payphone is a huge fortified monster that looks like it would survive an artillery bombardment and weighs a ton.  That one came in with a batch of about a dozen of same that were imported by a local guy who hired me to wire 'em all up to work in the US.  He had them all powder-coated in the colors they arrived in, so most were black and one was red.  My price for the job was to keep one of the black ones.  The receiver has seen better days so eventually I may get around to replacing it with a regular GPO receiver on a longer cord (if I can find long armored cords that would even remotely fit; the US type aren't compatible due to the large rubber grommet at the handset end). 

Hmm, more projects to do... : - )