WE TT Telstar wiring issues, need help, please

[RotoTech99]

Dear Forum:

I am experiencing a issue with a WE TT Telstar set that I can't figure out, and need help with, please.

When I wire it per the  schematic,  I get sound but no dial tone.  But when I move the red line lead to "R",  it gets dial tone and dials,  but doesn't ring.

I'm using a 72 type dial,  and the network is a 4228 TT compatible network...

I am thinking the capacitor between " k" and "a" is bad,  or the connector on the blue/white lead at "a" is bad,  but I see no damage to the hook or it's wires.

I'm planning to put a 4293 network in and see if  that resolves the issue; does anyone have some feedback or advice they can offer me, please?

If I can get some feedback that would help me isolate the problem,  I'd gladly express my thanks.

I've attached some pics that may help with answering my question. I apologize for the wiring jumble, I've been trying to figure it out nearly all afternoon.

Thank you,
RotoTech 99

[Key2871]

That's entirely possible that the cap is bad. Can you try the ringer on a different network, to verify that the bell works.
Can you locate a replacement cap?

[RotoTech99]

I don't have a capacitor,  but I do have some TT compatible 4293 networks I could try.

I did almost the same thing when I switched out a bad 4228 net.  in a WE part equipped Chestphone,  except I was only contending with 7 leads instead of 9.

What gets, me is when you move the red line to "R",  it will get good dial tone,  and dial,  but with the ringer connected as it should be,  it won't ring. 

That's why I suspect the capacitor
between "A" and "K" is bad.

Other than that, once I can confirm my 4293 net will resolve my issue,  I'll have to figure out where my double stick foam tape wandered off to. There's not real big surface area to stick it to internally,  so I'm going to have to be sure it's stuck good in place.

The 4293 network I'm using doesn't have an "L2" terminal, so "A" will be where my line connections go that are usually on L2, including the blue/white hook lead I believe.

I can't say for sure,  but I think I've got a schematic for that "lurking about" someplace.

RotoTech99

[Key2871]

You may find on on the TCI site, look around here and you should find the link. But it's got to be close to any 2500 set.

[RotoTech99]

Thank you,  I've got the info. somewhere in my manuals as well.

I'll check the TCI Library as well; I usually don't think of it because I go to my manuals first.

If nothing else, it'll give me something to look into on a slow afternoon.  I'm tired out today,  so I'll try looking after a good rest.

RotoTech99

[poplar1]

When I wire it per the  schematic,  I get sound but no dial tone.  But when I move the red line lead to "R",  it gets dial tone and dials,  but doesn't ring.

R, GN, and B are the network outputs for the talking circuit. So the red line (input) doesn't belong there.

[RotoTech99]

Dear Poplar1:

I suspected what you mentioned,  I wanted clarification before reaching a decision on it.

Regarding the 4293 network I plan to replace the 4228 network with; right now the top terminal board doesn't have an "L2" terminal, but I have another top terminal board I could exchange and put it on it before installing it that does have the L2 terminal on it.

I'm not entirely familiar with wiring a 4293 network that doesn't have the "L2" terminal intoa set with a 9 lead hook switch,  so I figure it would be a alternative option I could use.

The 4293 network I'm using is already configured to accept a tone dial,  so that part of my problem is resolved hopefully.

I'm also printing off the WE card catalog index on the 4293 networks as a reference.

The only other thing it might be is possibly the blue/white hook lead has a bad spade tip, but I didn't see any damage to the insulation at the spade tip, and the lead itself looks good, so I've got one or two things to check still.

Do you have any other feedback or advice that might help, please?  I would be very thankful if you do have anything else in advice or feedback you can offer.

Now the fun part is finding my double stick foam tape for mounting it; There are some spots under where the network sits I can stick it to, thankfully.

Thank you,
RotoTech99

[Key2871]

Oh yea. Dough I missed that, between my small screen and bad eye I missed that..

[RotoTech99]

Dear Key2871:

I just posted a reply to poplar1's reply.... Please read it, and let me know if you have some additional feedback or advice you can offer.

One other thing I can do on the 4293 network I plan to use is exchange the terminal board top that snaps onto the network for one that does have the "L2" terminal so that I would be dealing with the same terminals as the 4228 network.

I haven't had a chance to look up the wiring for a 4293 network without the L2 terminal and a 9 lead hookswitch just yet...

The only other thing I thought of is maybe the spade tip is bad on the blue/white hook lead; if it is after I check it, I can replace the tip.

Thank you,
RotoTech99

[Key2871]

Well keep in mind that the L2 terminal is just a tie point for placing wires on. It's a starting point for the line and hook switch connections.
And the hook switch just turns on or of power to the parts of the network to actually make it work.
So if you have the terminal frame that fits on top, use it. It will help you in the future as to what is connected to what.
A 4228 network is just one number of many, the network it's self is basically the same thing no matter what the number.
Once you figure out what terminal does what, the rest from one set to the next is easy.
If you can't find anything on the wiring for the set, as I said try finding something for the 2500 series that's a good starting point.
As I said the book switch uses two sets of switches to complete the power path to the actual parts on the network to make it work. L2 gets line in from the phone line, that include using yellow, wires to switch the brown wire to C on the network. L1 is the same deal, just the tip side of the phone line, white to switch the green to RR. C and RR are what makes the network actually work, connect the Red handset to R, with the red transmitter, then black to B then Green or White wire to GN. Then there is the other white from the receiver that also gets tied with the R terminal on the network. But a tone dial needs to have the receiver leads from the handset to other points with the correct wires from the dial, To work properly. That's where terminals such as S, T come in. But I'm getting to complicated for you at this point. If you can't find a schematic, let us know, either I or someone else will post something to lead you in the right direction.

[RotoTech99]

I found my diagram of how a 72 type dial wires into a 2500,but I haven't found the 2500 with a 4293 network yet...  I think it's how I did one of my Chest phones when I changed the network out.

I'll look in my files,  and the Web again,  I'm pretty sure I'll find it.

Thanks,
RotoTech99

[Key2871]

As I have said, networks are all basically the same. Just terminal positions change from one to the other.
That should be the only difference. With that said, familiarize yourself with the diagram, and the terminals that indicate what wire goes to what terminal, just look at the designation, not so much the location. Because the only real difference is going to be the placement of terminals, L1, L2, C and RR F etc, there all the same from one network to the next.

It seem daunting to look at all those wires, an terminals, but if you can separate them in your mind it makes it easier to know what does what.

[RotoTech99]

That's kind of what I figured..

My main concern was if I used the network that didn't have the L2 terminal,  I'd have 4 hook leads going to "A",  plus the black line cord lead,  and I wasn't sure about it. I don't imagine it'd make much difference one way or another.

In the Chest phones I worked on,  I put the slate, yellow,  and brown with the blue/white lead on "A",  along with the black line lead,  and it functioned fine; (if it was a cat,  it would've purred,  I'd bet.)

And remember,  I'm using a 72 type dial,  so I have to make one change moving the black handset lead to "T", and the red handset lead to "R".

If I made the change I suggested,  and switched the terminal top to the one with the
"L2" terminal,  all I'd, need to do is follow how the set was originally wired,  except for the change in the handset wiring.

I might try both,  strictly for caution's sake.

RotoTech99

[Key2871]

When you get down to it, you can actually insulate and store the slate lead, because it's not really doing anything in your case. So if you only have the A terminal, you can cut down by one lead.
Because the slate and Yellow leads actually switch each other, they Make when on hook, instead of off hook

When you work on phones, or even just kind-of play with them you get familiar with how what does this and that.
At the end it's all pretty easy. It only when you don't do it for a while, and get older things get hard to remember what color is what and where it goes.

YOU know, I've been thinking about this for a while, but I'm not good on computers anymore, not like I used to.
But to make a simple diagram for connection leads what the hook switch does in what phone, where the wires go etc.

Trimline phone's have a hook switch that's different, but similar to the standard telephone sets. I actually used those used in wall sets adapted to use in 2565 sets at one point, because of the system I made to run every thing the way I thought it needed to be.
But Jeff, makes some killer diagrams on his computer, and the layout is so easy to follow. I'd love to post a simple diagram like that for people who don't know much yet about phone's.

[poplar1]

Not sure but It's believe the yellow, brown, and slate switch leads are not used, and are stored on the L2 terminal. Blue and blue-white are used to open one side of the line. Green and white open the other side of the line.

By using A terminal as the red line conductor, no jumper is needed to connect the line to the ringer capacitor (A and K),  which would otherwise be needed for a 2-wire ringer.
(Exception: you could also use the yellow and brown on L2 or G to open the line and connect the slate switch wire to A. In that case the ringer circuit would be connected only when the phone is on hook.)