Hello all,
I just wanted to share a recently purchased black 500. It hoping its an unmolested early 500, but all I have are seller photos. Its missing the A/B designation which appeared later and looks like a back painted dial face. The strait handset cord, black plungers, and 6 holed caps also look promising. I'm not sure what the 28 in the code stands for though.
Thoughts?
Kenton - I think you've got an all-original '50 there! It looks all correct. I've seen other early ones with a small font 2-digit code stamped on the bottom like that in various places. I have an early '51 that is all original, and I haven't yet disassembled it for cleanup. I kinda hate to pop all the screws loose after all those years untouched since it left the factory. Keep us updated!
Nice find you've acquired there.
Where did you buy it and what did it cost? What did you pay for shipping? If an internet buy, do you still have the link? Curious minds would like to know . . . ;)
Thanks,
I will say this phone has set me back $30. It will be local pickup. It is, as another member calls it, an evil bay purchase.
Here is the link,
http://tinyurl.com/l36b6oj (http://tinyurl.com/l36b6oj)
Nice find, especially since it has the original straight cord! I've been looking for a '50 for a long time, but they're either in online auctions where the price skyrockets or they turn out to be 1951s! >:(
I actually haven't seen many 1949/50/51 sets for sale on ebay, so I'm not sure what their value is. I guess I haven't been looking very hard. 8) I did see a 1951j/k on ebay right now though.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161431346539?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
And Christian, how did that potentially early 500 you bought turn out?
Kenton
Quote from: Kenton K on September 27, 2014, 10:57:09 AM
I will say this phone has set me back $30. It will be local pickup.
So, when will you have it in your hands and how soon after that will you have more info and photos posted here?
No rush, just asking . . . ::)
Quote from: Kenton K on September 27, 2014, 11:22:59 AM
And Christian, how did that potentially early 500 you bought turn out?
Kenton
Oh, I didn't update that post? Well don't I feel dumb now?! ;D
Apparently, there isn't a single trace on it that gells me what year it was originally built. Every singe part, other than the base and terminal strip, was replaced in 1956, even the network! Why would someone at Western Electric go into all the trouble of replacing the network, yet keep using the terminal strip?
Anyway, it's still an interesting set, and it shows how far WE went to reuse parts!
Yeah, that dial bezel looks like the injected type to me, but am hoping the rest of your phone hasn't been messed with.
It's interesting that the only other early production 500 I've seen come out of the Bay Area is mine, and it's a 10/50 too.
I'm anxious to see pictures of all components once you have the phone.
Anyone else notice how the gold 500s have "small font" operator dial bezels too? Could this be because Western Electric used the same molds for the gold ones that they did for dial bezels in 1950?
OK guys, I got it. I've got good and bad news.
The bad: its not all matching dates.
The good: the newest date is 10-1950. ;D
Here is the breakdown:
Base: 10/50
425A Network: 8-49
311A Equalizer: Aug 21 1950
C2A Ringer: 9-50
7A Dial: 10-50 I
Case: 6-6-50-3
U1 Receiver: 10-5-50
T1 Transmitter: 9-50-I
H4BA Handset Cord: III 50
D3BB Line Cord: III 50
The G1 handset is undated.
The faceplate is indeed back painted. The clear layer makes a really cool 3D effect, especially with the dots. And I bet the gold faceplate used the same mold. It would seem the 'large' operator first appeared on injection molded bezels.
-Ken
That looks like a left over parts matching date III 1950, or Oct 1950 500. With everything matching or pre-dating the base, I'd say it's original as built.
But, then again, WDIK?
Did you check the handset caps for dates or just the handset?
Yah, I was just being silly. ;)
And no the caps do not have an dates. The handset has does a 40 stamp.
Ken
Quote from: Kenton K on September 27, 2014, 08:43:18 PM
The bad: its not all matching dates.
The good: the newest date is 10-1950. ;D
Ken,
It's all good news. Don't expect the dates to match. We've noted this in other early 500 sets.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=9950.msg105858#msg105858 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=9950.msg105858#msg105858)
I am sure they made a bunch of 500 parts and slowly used them up. I've seen many of the 1950 sets have 1949 networks. Also, based on the topic you linked to, it looks like sep-oct is when they changed the operator orientation to the slanted type. Good to know.
Ken
Nice find, and I agree that though the dates may not match, the components are almost certainly those assembled originally by WECo.
Could the "40" in the handset mean April of 1950? I see no reason to think the handset isn't the one the phone was issued with originally.
More pix of all dated parts, please!!!
Ok, here are the photos😄
I did small amount of polish, not to much though. I don't mind a slightly worn phone. The handset is amazing though, it has kept most of its Bakelite shine. No peeling, bumpiness, and little orange peel.
One question though, is the dial card appropriate?
Here are more pics
Even more📞!
Handset elements,
Handset marking,
And everything out together! I love the translucent bezel, really nice effect.
Ken, that is a real nice early 500! I like the '49 network date. Is the receiver element also marked '49? Nice job picking that one out of the crowd. The price was right too. Congratulations!
~Dennis
Congratulations, Ken.
As for the number card, there were LL N-NNNN exchanges in larger cities in 1950, so the dial card could very well be authentic. Notice that it does not have an area code on it, so it is at least authentic back to the mid 60's. If the phone once had another shorter number, an installer would have likely been the one to go out to the residence and change the number card to the present one. Sometimes when they did that, they'd leave the old one behind.
Dennis,
The receiver is a bit hard to read, but it defiantly reads 10-5-50. The receiver was the first date I checked and I thought read it as 10-5-60 and was super bummed out, thinking other parts had also been replaced. The ink must have been running out when they stamped it.
Ken
I'm definitely not an expert on telephone set assembly, but it looks to me like the wiring on your set is properly "dressed" from the factory. I don't think there's any reason to think your phone isn't 100% original.
On my 10/50 set, only the equalizer and transmitter element aren't dated 10/50, and the case is from 1956. The equalizer is from September and the transmitter was much later. It also had a 1960 coiled cord on it when I found it. I've since replaced that with a straight cord, although it's a 1954. I found a 1953 transmitter to use in it, but for now I have the phone boxed up and am instead using my matching dates 9/51 500T. It as a reverse painted bezel, so provides the same look on my desk as my 1950. I agree that the reverse painted bezels give an interesting 3D-like effect. When I found my 1950 and saw the different looking bezel, my first thought was that the characters might be luminous because they had a faintly greenish tint to them.
It's interesting that to me, your bezel appears to be the injected type in all of the pictures you've posted, although the yellowed characters should have been an indication -- but then again, I have early '50s injected bezels that have yellowed characters. When my 500T showed up on ebay, I spotted the reverse painted bezel right away. Probably the zoom option had something to do with it.
If you decide to use this phone, I'd be interested in knowing how well the original transmitter performs. So far I'm not getting any complaints about my '51, but in my experience the T1 types don't seem to have the same longevity as their F1 predecessors, even after a good rapping on a hard surface.
Also, the number card seems appropriate for the phone. I have the same type, the original that was issued for the 302 my parents had installed in their house in 1960, before direct dial long distance came to the greater Bay Area. Although Area Codes (the telco term is "Number Planning Areas") were developed as part of the North American Dialing Plan in 1947, it wasn't until 1963 or 1964 that this area got direct dial LD and new sticky-backed 10-digit number cards were sent out for subscribers to place over their old alpha-numeric 7-character cards. I think a lot of people just stuck them to the celluloid protector, but not my dad. After about 45 years, the glue had lost its properties and I was able to peel the overlay off to reveal the original alpha-numeric card, no worse for wear, which I'm now using.
It makes perfect sense to me that this same type of card could have been used on phones issued in 1950. It would be interesting to know where your phone was originally deployed. I don't think there's a database anywhere on line that matches exchange names to the various switching offices where they were used across the Bell System network.
Was 10/50 the first month that "operator" was not in a semi-circle below the zero?
The solid gray number cards (Form E-4203 and E-4204) are mentioned in a December, 1953 BSP, but I haven't found any reference earlier than that.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=12632.msg133071#msg133071
Quote from: Phonesrfun on September 29, 2014, 11:58:58 AM
Congratulations, Ken.
As for the number card, there were LL N-NNNN exchanges in larger cities in 1950, so the dial card could very well be authentic. Notice that it does not have an area code on it, so it is at least authentic back to the mid 60's. If the phone once had another shorter number, an installer would have likely been the one to go out to the residence and change the number card to the present one. Sometimes when they did that, they'd leave the old one behind.
Yes, look underneath the dial card. I found an original underneath a newer dial card on a pink 500 I had.
I've never come across a 311A equalizer.
Were they eventually incorporated into the networks?
All of my 500's don't have one.
Quote from: tallguy58 on September 29, 2014, 04:12:05 PM
I've never come across a 311A equalizer.
Were they eventually incorporated into the networks?
All of my 500's don't have one.
The 311 equalizer was only used with the original 500 sets that had a 425A network. The 425B network used semiconductor varistors, which are voltage-sensitive resistors, instead of the thermistor and incorporated everything into the network can.
This upgrade happened in 1951 and was the reason for the model number change from 500A/B to 500C/D.
Only the 500J/K/T used the 425A
and equalizer some time longer.
[that's right, no equalizer in the 500J/K/T]
As far as I know,the 500 t/j/k only had a 425a network, but no 311 equalizer. It was used for sets far away from the exchange were line resistance was high.
Ken.
Unfortunately, the phone was missing the retaining ring. So I stole the Lafayette card from a 5302. And. In fact, I found the card beneath a newer version. That's why it's so clean.
Ken
Congrads. I should check in more often. Photos good for reference & was going to nominate your phone, but looks like another member already has.
Lesson learned. Don't forget about black! Had noticed a faded looking black one & dismissed it. Learned here phone was dk. gray! Congrads to winner of that one too.
--Bruce
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on September 27, 2014, 02:40:55 PM
Anyone else notice how the gold 500s have "small font" operator dial bezels too? Could this be because Western Electric used the same molds for the gold ones that they did for dial bezels in 1950?
Here's a gold 500 with the small font for operator:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350699783257
And did you guys see how much the 500 T/J/Ks went for?!? I guess they are much more rare than A/Bs. It went for a lot higher than a 11/50 500AB I saw sell for $130 recently.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161431346539?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT