Restored 202 E1 for $165

[LarryInMichigan]

I was in a nearby antique/vintage shop today and saw a restored WE202 with an E1 handset in very good (nearly excellent) condition.  The cords were reproduction cloth, and the line cord had an RJ11 connector on the end, so I assume that it had an internal network added.  The phone had a sticker and dial center card from a professional restorer (I think it was "20th Century").  The price tag was $165.  What do you think? 

The shop also had an oak magneto/ringer box in great condition for $35, and WE oak magneto wall phone, missing the spit cup, for $75.  There were also a few Trimlines and miscellaneous 70's WE deco phones.

Larry

[Dennis Markham]

Larry, with regard to the D1/E1, I think it would depend on what dial is inside.  If it is #6 or even a #5 the price may be a bit high.  Is the E1 handset a seamless or grooved handset?  The seamless is more valuable.  #4 dials sell in the $40 - $50 range.  I picked up a D1/F1/#5 dial this summer at a flea market for $65.  I guess it all depends on how much one would have to pay to build one.  If it had a ringer box attached for $165 I'd say it was a good buy.

[LarryInMichigan]

Dennis,

Thank you for the information.  I have to admit that I am not yet familiar with all of these issues.  Are there pictures of both seamless and grooved handsets somewhere so that I can see how they look?  Also, are there pictures showing how to identify the dial without dismantling the phone?  The phone did not have a a ringer box.  I believe that it was updated with an internal network and ringer.  There was something scribbled on the sticker on the bottom about a ringer, but I could not read it.  I would assume that it is electronic.  I don't really feel like paying $165, but since I saw it there, I was overcome with curiosity.  Maybe you want to check it out the next time you are in Pleasant Ridge (where the shop is).

Larry

[Dennis Markham]

Larry, one can often see what dial is inside the phone by removing the leather covered bottom.  Often the dial designation is visible, i.e. 4H, 5H, 6D, etc.  There is nothing outwardly apparent from looking at the dial from the front that can identify the dial.  Maybe if the finger wheel was moved enough to read what dial plate is on the phone.  One can also tell with some experience by listening to the dial as it returns.  After some time listening to the different sounds they make it's relatively easy to tell by sound.  The #4 (and earlier #2) have a distinct ratchet sound, like the sound of a Model A at idle, with it's valves ticking.  The #5 is a little more muted because of a rubber tip on the part that is ratcheted.  The #6 sounds like a #7 dial on the model 500.  Often a #6 dial with have a "6" stamped on the edge of the finger stop.

Here is a Forum link from last year where I posted a few photos of the #4 and #5 dials.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=183.0

Perhaps that phone has an electronic network as you said.

I doubt I'll see it any time soon.  I've never been to Pleasant Ridge.  But if I find myself there I'll check out the Antique store.

[LarryInMichigan]

I did turn the dial while I was there, and it did not make much noise, so it may be a #5.  I looked at some pictures on-line, and I think that the handset is the kind without a groove.  If I happen to be back that way, I will probably stop by the store anyway, so i will see if it is still there.  The store is on Woodward between 9 and 10 Mile, in case anyone is interested.  They have alot of interesting stuff, and their prices are not so bad.  They also have a second location on Hilton near 10 Mile.

Larry

[Dennis Markham]

Here are two E1 handsets.  In the photo the top one has a horizontal groove running the length of the handle.  The bottom one does not.  I am told there are seamless caps as well but I'm not sure what part of the caps is seamless.

[bingster]

The caps have casting seams on them just like the handle.  On the "seamless" cap, the seams are carefully ground and sanded smooth, on the grooved ones the seams are routed out with a tool that leaves the neat groove.  

Actually, the word "seamless" has always seemed strange to me, and probably isn't the best way to describe the earlier handset.  They ALL have casting seams, from the first E1 to the G1.  It's just the method of disguising the seams that differs--smoothed vs. routed.  But I guess we're stuck with the seamless/grooved descriptions.

These are the grooves that are not present on seamless caps:

[Dennis Markham]

Thanks Bingster for clearing that up for me/us.