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GPO Candlestick Problem

Started by Dan, August 08, 2009, 07:04:24 PM

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Stephen Furley

#120
Dan,

What shape is the mouthpiece on your 'phone; is it more or less cylindrical, or does it flare out in a trumpet shape, making the whole transmitter look rather like a daffodil in shape?  the flared type is older, but the later type takes a standard transmitter insert, as used on the bakelite 'phones, and is said to give better sound quality.

I've received my 150 today, somebody kindly took it in.  It's very similar in shape to yours; if anything, the column on mine looks slightly taller, but it's difficult to be sure from the picture.  If it is, the difference is only a few milimetres.

Is there a number stamped on the left side of the transmitter mount on your 'phone?  If so, does it just say 'No. 150', or is there an earlier number which has been struck out?

This is the first time that I've seen one close up, and the first thing that struck me is how heave it is, both in total, and in particular, the weight of the receiver.  I'm told that the receiver housing is brass, but covered in what has been described as 'enamel'.  This is a very strange material; it looks almost as if it's made out of Toffee!  Whatever it is, it seems to be very hard-wearing; there's no marking where it's been i contact with the rest.  The receiver cap has a groove cut in the end of it, I remember reading about this, but I can't remember what purpose it was supposed to serve.  The cords are original, the receiver cord is two-conductor twisted, looks rather like the sort of flex you might have had on a table lamp about 60 years ago.  It's in very good condition, just very slight wear where it goes into the receiver housing.

I don't know if the transmitter is original, but it's certainly the original type; they were still standard in the '50s.

The dial is not original; it's a No.12, looks almost identical to the No.10, except that the finger stop is slightly narrower.  It has a 'Trigger' type mechanism, rather than the 'Slipping cam' type of the No.10.  It has the correct early type dial card, but I think it's a reproduction.  If it is, it's a good one.  There's no number on it.

I doubt that the paint is original, but it doesn't looks like it's been recently done.  There's no brass showing through, and no wear on the steel parts; it looks like it's not seen much use.  There are a few 'bubbles' at the back, near the cord entry, where there is some rust under the paint, but it's not much.  There's also a bit of rust inside the base, and some rust stains on the wiring diagram, but again, it's not much.

The bellset cord is also original, very thick three-conductor plaited brown cotton, still with the original bindings.  It's in good condition, but there's just one problem; one of the wires has been cut off short right at the binding.  I have no idea why this was done, but it looks like it was done long ago.  The tails would have been too short to reach the terminals in the bellset anyway.   It was probably intended to be connected to a block terminal, with cable from there to a remote bellset.  I've applied a new waxed cotton binding about 50mm further up the cord; I'll have to remove the original one, straighten out the conductors from that point, splice some stranded copper wire to the cut core and then re-bind that core with wire and cotton.  It's not going to be a quick job, and the 'phone is not going to work until it's been done.

Will post some pictures soon.

Phonesrfun

Dan:

Possible source of the most recent problem, and it even could be what caused the whole thing in the first place, but let's not even think of that.

Perhaps the hook is bottoming out in its notched guide in the shaft of the candlestick, and not allowint the rubber bumper to push in enough to open the switch contacts.

See the attached picture for what I am talking about.

If that is the case, you may need to devise a way to extend the rubber bumper, or even glue an insulating spacer on the end of leaf #4 which is what the bumper comes into contact with.  It would have to withstand the rigors of all the hookswitch action over time.

-Bill

-Bill
-Bill G

Dan

Hi Stephen, Mine flares out like a trumpet. It says W15 with 4001 under this with NO1 to the right of the W-15.Mine is very heavy also, you could probably identify my dial better than I could. It says PAT289244 on the bottom of it. How do you take off the dial card? It is like a WEstern Electric 500 with a metal dial?

Can't wait to see your pics.
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright

Dan

Quote from: Phonesrfun on August 12, 2009, 09:23:11 PM
Dan:

Possible source of the most recent problem, and it even could be what caused the whole thing in the first place, but let's not even think of that.

Perhaps the hook is bottoming out in its notched guide in the shaft of the candlestick, and not allowint the rubber bumper to push in enough to open the switch contacts.

See the attached picture for what I am talking about.

If that is the case, you may need to devise a way to extend the rubber bumper, or even glue an insulating spacer on the end of leaf #4 which is what the bumper comes into contact with.  It would have to withstand the rigors of all the hookswitch action over time.

-Bill

-Bill

Funny you should mention that because when I moved up the shaft part, the hook mechansim worked better! I think you have the answer here Bill.
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright

Phonesrfun

Well, what would you like to do next?  Do you want to try different positions and see if it will work?  l
-Bill G

Dan

Bill do you think the tiny square of insulation (Rust colored) between leaf three and four should stay in place? I know the guy put it there to keep them apart. I thought maybe it broke off from a sopt closer where the screws are that hold the leaves together and maybe three and four should touch? You are the electrical guy, however and could you explain why three and 4 should be insulated from each other and not touch?
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright

Dan

Quote from: Phonesrfun on August 12, 2009, 09:30:38 PM
Well, what would you like to do next?  Do you want to try different positions and see if it will work?  l

Should I find a tiny piece of rubber and wedge it on top of leaf 4 , thus forcing it up (towards the upper three leaves  and more importantly up towards the hook switch. Are you saying this would help the overall performance of the hanging up and recognition of the phone recognizing it is on and off hook?
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright

Dan

According to your picture , is the piece glued to the left arrow or the right arrow (I am guessing right)?
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright

Phonesrfun

Well, the purpose of that spacer separates the two switch sections from each other, and if both switches were opening the spacer would be absolutely necessary, because one switch opens one side of the incoming line and the other switch opens the other  Take a look at the diagram and you will see that the switches are hooked directly to L1 and L2.  If they came in contact, it would short out the line and you would hear nothing at all.

Now, having said that we know that leaves 3 and 4 are not really working, which is switch 2.  Switch 2 is staying turned on, but that's ok since switch #1 (Leaves 1 and 2) are doing just fine.   No real reason to have a switch on both sides of the incoming line anyway.

So, if we actually unhook switch #2 (Leaves #3 and 4) from terminals 5 and 6 on the terminal strip by unhooking the brown/yellow and yellow/brown wires at the terminal strip, and then move the solid Orange/White wire from terminal 6 to be with the Blue/Red on terminal 5 (Leaving terminal 6 empty) then you would be free to take that rust colored spacer out because the swich would then be a single section, and then you may have a lot more latitude in how you adjust it.

All that was pretty wordy, but in essence we would be simplifying the thing a bit.  If you have difficulty understanding how to do it, I don't mind going over it again.

-Bill G

Phonesrfun

I am sorry, I don't understand the question you are asking just before my last (lengthy) post
-Bill G

Dan

First of all , I know EXACTLY how to take switch two out of the equation and I will move the three wires accordingly.
Should I tape off the two brown-yellow  wires with electrical tape so they don't short out something?

Disregard my confusing other question, thanks.

I think I will move the three wires now.
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright

Phonesrfun

Yes, tape them, or remove them from under the small nuts that hold them onto the hookswitch.

-Bill G

Dan

Just for curiousity sake, I will try the phone now before removing the little insulation square between leaves 3 and 4.
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright

Phonesrfun

-Bill G

Dan

Amazingly, now it doesn't hang up at all, the switch doesn't pop or anything. Do you want me to put the wires back as they were and see if there is a difference?
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright