Older Rotary Phone, Help Identifying?

[lmd]

Hello!  I am Dan, a first time poster on the forum.  I was inspired to do so because of a telephone I found a couple of years ago.
I found this telephone with some old electronics that I picked up and my research led me to this forum.  I attached some photos of the telephone to this post.  There is some work to do to clean it up and make it look new again.

The label inside the phone states "A/S ELEKTRISK BUREAU OSLO".  The label in the center of the dial states "Compania Telefonica Nacional De Espana" and "No girar el disco hasta oir la senal para marcar" (Google translates to "Do not turn the dial until you hear the signal Bookmarking").  I thought that I read that Elektrisk Bureau telephones had a dial that counts backwards.  The languages seem like an odd combination.  It may be that this phone has parts from two sources - the unit from one and the dial added later (?).

I don't see much in terms of a date on the telephone but on the base there is a plate engraved with the following: "Fame Commanders Conference Wiesbaden, Germany 2-4 March 1966".    Unfortunately I was not able to find anything online even with the specific date in the engraving.

I have no idea if the telephone works or not, but I would like to get it working.  My hope is to connect it to my phone line and use it.  I am located in Kitchener/Waterloo, Canada.  Online I found some information that states there might need to be a jumper installed between Ek and Lb for a North American line.  I am sure there could be other considerations as well.  I am comfortable with electronics and electronic repair.  Is there a good way to test the telephone without connecting it to a line to make sure it isn't going to cause problems?  Are these telephones safe to use with ADSL service or do they interfere with the data?

Thank you in advance,
Dan

[dsk]

Hi, and:
Welcome to the forum!

This telephone are made in Oslo Norway by Elektrisk Bureau. It is a modell made from 1924  and only a few years, in a small number.  Originally the dial was reverse, and might have had a longer break on the last pulse.
It was made for use in Oslo at "Frogner Exchange" the very first in our capitol.
The ringer may draw a lot of current, and cause problems on a modern line. This could be compensated by inserting a capacitor or resistor as a replacement between 2 terminals originally linked together (LA---EK). (I would try a 1 micro farad capacitor)

With a proper ADSL filter, the phone should work, if rotaries work on your line.

You may test the phone by hooking it togetehr with another phone and put in a 9V battery in series, then the voice path should work when both phones are off hook. Dialling the rotary should result in loud clicks in the other end, (take care of your ears). 

dsk

[Matilo Telephones]

Interesting phone. It has a lot of similarities with those Standard Electric/BTMC-phones we talked about earlier, Dag.

Wiesbaden was the headquarters for the American forces in Germany. Could this plaque be something military?

And why the Spanish label?

[lmd]

Definitely interesting!  Thank you for the information fellows!

dsk,
I didn't realize it would be that old!  You mentioned that there would have been a small number made.. is it fairly rare to find one of these?  I tried to look up "Frogner Exchange" to learn more but didn't have any success. 

Rotary phones should work on the line and I will spend some time checking this one out.  If I test with another phone and a 9V battery, does the other phone need to be a model with passive components or can I use an old wireless phone?  This phone is the only one that I have which uses passive circuitry.  If I need to find another "line-powered" phone to test this one then I will start to look for one.


Matilo Telephones (sorry, I didn't see your name..),
Thanks for the heads up about Wiesbaden and the American forces connection.  I think the plaque does refer to something military.
I did some searching on the internet this evening and found out a few interesting things, but nothing specific to the "Fame Commanders Conference".  Apparently later during in the same month of March 1966, the secret (infamous?) Bilderberg meeting was held.  I read that some other military changes were happening in Wiesbaden as well.  I suppose those things may not have an bearing on the history of this phone at all though.  Nothing I could find seems to match a meeting or conference on March 2-4, 1966.It would be interesting to learn more about this phone and the history but it might not be possible unless there is someone who has some specific knowledge of history in that area at the time.

I am puzzled as to why a telephone would have anything to do with a military conference (or any other conference).  A prize?  A present?  Retirement gift?  Would they have given key people a phone to commemorate the event? (??)  It seems like an odd choice to me.  It is interesting that a phone made in Norway would make it to a German city around 40 years later and bear a plaque.

This phone is definitely something I would like to restore and use.  This one is pretty dirty - there are even palm and finger prints in the grime on the handle.  Is there a specific metal polish or treatment to restore the handset metal and bakelite (?) handle without damaging them?

If I find that it is not working, are parts hard to find for these phones?  Are they expensive?

- Dan

[TelePlay]

Wiesbaden was the headquarters for the American forces in Germany. Could this plaque be something military?

Wasn't Wiesbaden the HQs for forces in Germany starting when the Germans pulled out and the western forces took over that airfield until sometime in early 1966 when the HQ operations were moved to Ramstein Air Base, where it remains to this day?

And, I think the "EAME" stands for European-African Middle Eastern as in EAME Commanders who worked out of Wiesbaden and may have had a conference in March of '66.

There is just so much on the internet about all this but it's hard to figure out and keep straight.

[LarryInMichigan]

The dial is certainly not original to the phone and quite likely came from a Spanish phone, hence the CTE card.

The phone will likely work fine, except possibly for the transmitter.  Finding an exact replacement transmitter may be tricky, but other options may exist.  I have found it necessary to connect resistors in parallel with the transmitters on a number of European phones to reduce the static generated in the transmitter by reducing the amount of current flowing though it.

Enjoy your old phone


Larry

[dsk]

Definitely interesting!  Thank you for the information fellows!

dsk,
I didn't realize it would be that old!  You mentioned that there would have been a small number made.. is it fairly rare to find one of these?  I tried to look up "Frogner Exchange" to learn more but didn't have any success.  Not easy to find something about Frogner, but look here:   http://lokalhistoriewiki.no/index.php/Televerkets_f%C3%B8rste_automatsentral

Rotary phones should work on the line and I will spend some time checking this one out.  If I test with another phone and a 9V battery, does the other phone need to be a model with passive components or can I use an old wireless phone?  This phone is the only one that I have which uses passive circuitry.  If I need to find another "line-powered" phone to test this one then I will start to look for one.  The wireless should work fine.


Matilo Telephones (sorry, I didn't see your name..),
Thanks for the heads up about Wiesbaden and the American forces connection.  I think the plaque does refer to something military.
I did some searching on the internet this evening and found out a few interesting things, but nothing specific to the "Fame Commanders Conference".  Apparently later during in the same month of March 1966, the secret (infamous?) Bilderberg meeting was held.  I read that some other military changes were happening in Wiesbaden as well.  I suppose those things may not have an bearing on the history of this phone at all though.  Nothing I could find seems to match a meeting or conference on March 2-4, 1966.It would be interesting to learn more about this phone and the history but it might not be possible unless there is someone who has some specific knowledge of history in that area at the time.

I am puzzled as to why a telephone would have anything to do with a military conference (or any other conference).  A prize?  A present?  Retirement gift?  Would they have given key people a phone to commemorate the event? (??)  It seems like an odd choice to me.  It is interesting that a phone made in Norway would make it to a German city around 40 years later and bear a plaque.  Don't understand how or why it has left Oslo, but I may guess about someone with special interests...

This phone is definitely something I would like to restore and use.  This one is pretty dirty - there are even palm and finger prints in the grime on the handle.  Is there a specific metal polish or treatment to restore the handset metal and bakelite (?) handle without damaging them?. The "bakelite" may not be bakelite, but hard rubber. When you hods it for some minutes worming it up, and maybe moisting it a little your hand may smell!  Black shoe polish may work.  The black paint shod be cleaned with some dish washing soap and water.

If I find that it is not working, are parts hard to find for these phones?  Are they expensive?

To get parts may be a job, but Arwin may now more about that.  The transmitter capsule from another phone may do the job if it fits.

- Dan

dsk

[dsk]

Went downstairs, and found an OSLO Dial pretty equal?   This are probably 195x

^dsk

[Matilo Telephones]

Looks like the same dial, to me. Only the colors differ. It is an American design, the designation of which always seems to slip my mind.

These sort of phones are pretty solid, so I trust it will work without too much work. Looks like the capacitor has gone gooey.

I may have some parts for it, yes.

Can you post some pics of the handset? Looks like a Standard Electric handset.

The Norway-Spain-Wiesbaden connection is intriguing. Is/was there an American base in Norway? Airforce?

[dsk]

Norway had forces in Germany 1946-53
in Hartz or Schleswig-Holstein.

dsk

[Matilo Telephones]

Ah yes, had not thought of that, a Norwegian bringing it to Germany. Is there a connection between Norway and Spain?

[lmd]

And, I think the "EAME" stands for European-African Middle Eastern as in EAME Commanders who worked out of Wiesbaden and may have had a conference in March of '66.

Wow, you are absolutely right.  I read it as "FAME" rather than "EAME" and now that I look at the photo and the plaque I see the "E".  Sorry about that!

- Dan

[lmd]

Not easy to find something about Frogner, but look here:   http://lokalhistoriewiki.no/index.php/Televerkets_f%C3%B8rste_automatsentral

The "bakelite" may not be bakelite, but hard rubber. When you hods it for some minutes worming it up, and maybe moisting it a little your hand may smell!  Black shoe polish may work.  The black paint shod be cleaned with some dish washing soap and water.

To get parts may be a job, but Arwin may now more about that.  The transmitter capsule from another phone may do the job if it fits.

dsk

Hi dsk,

I will translate the link you sent later this evening - the history is interesting.

The handle on the handset does smell a bit "rubbery" after holding it in a warm hand for a few minutes.  The material is very hard though - my fingernail does not leave a mark at all.  I thought that even an hard rubber would have a little bit of compliance.  Has it hardened from decades of aging?

I read a number of posts on the repair sub-forum last night but I am not sure of the best way to clean the rubber.  Is it safe to use warm water, dish detergent, and a soft toothbrush?
Will shoe polish penetrate the hard surface?  Would the handle have been a similar brown colour when it was new?

I will check the phone to see if it operates but have not had a chance yet.  It is gardening season here so I have been spending a lot of time outside getting things planted but I hope to spend some time this week.

The original dial with the 0-1-2-3-4... order is intriguing.
If one dials a "0", there should be 10 pulses on either dial.
But if one dials "1", there would be 1 pulse on the dial I have, but 9 pulses on the original Oslo dial?
Does that mean the telephone exchange had different logic to count pulses.. like a count-down/subtract-from-10 mechanism?

- Dan

[lmd]

The dial is certainly not original to the phone and quite likely came from a Spanish phone, hence the CTE card.

The phone will likely work fine, except possibly for the transmitter.  Finding an exact replacement transmitter may be tricky, but other options may exist.  I have found it necessary to connect resistors in parallel with the transmitters on a number of European phones to reduce the static generated in the transmitter by reducing the amount of current flowing though it.

Enjoy your old phone

Larry

Hi Larry,

Once I check the phone out I may be in touch to find out a bit more about the resistor modification you mentioned.  I should know more about whether it is working or not in the next week or so.

Thank you!  I am looking forward to using this phone

- Dan

[lmd]

Looks like the same dial, to me. Only the colors differ. It is an American design, the designation of which always seems to slip my mind.

These sort of phones are pretty solid, so I trust it will work without too much work. Looks like the capacitor has gone gooey.

I may have some parts for it, yes.

Can you post some pics of the handset? Looks like a Standard Electric handset.

The Norway-Spain-Wiesbaden connection is intriguing. Is/was there an American base in Norway? Airforce?

Hi Arwin,

Sure - I took a number of shots and attached them here.  I noticed there was some engraving on the receiver capsule - notes are in the photo that I uploaded.

I am not sure if the goo is from the capacitor or if that is an adhesive that was used when the phone was assembled.  The substance along the top, bottom, and sides of the large capacitor seems to be like a wax, maybe paraffin?  The bead along the upper edge looks like it might have been applied at some point but I am not sure.  Did they use wax in the internals of capacitors of this vintage?  I attached some closeup shots of the terminal end of the capacitor.

Hopefully I can spend some time testing this week to find out where I stand in terms of the phone electrics.

Has anyone designed a test circuit to drive the ringer?  I'm thinking a 555 timer circuit with a higher voltage output.  I thought I had read that the ring in North America is 90V.  I read reference to ring being 16Hz but I am not sure if that is here or another part of the world.

- Dan