Fun with a fingerwheel

[Willytx]

Hey all,

I have an Automatic Electric 80 with some fingerwheel problems. Somewhere along the way it got whacked. I thought the dial was broken and planned to send it in, along with some others for repair. While removing the dial from the phone I noticed the fingerwheel (NOT the one with the screw in the center!!!) was sort of cockeyed, moving up and down while it turns. It was also turning slow, catching and stopping, not returning all the way. After getting the dial off the phone, the fingerwheel had been pushed down and was turning fine without binding up. The fingerwheel was still off a bit but not as bad.

I decided to get the fingerwheel off since it is scrached and crazed and needs replacing. The instructions for removing it didn't work, probably due to the way it was off kilter. It is off now and I need to know who sells replacements for this and how to put the thing back on. There is a metal spring tab on the dial mechanism between 1 and 0, it must have something to do with locking the fingerwheel in place.

And to top off all that fun, one of the little screws that holds the dial assembly to the bracket, one of those two screws, stuck to my finger and went flying into oblivion. Two hours on the floor and I still can't find it. If the dog ate it, I don't want it back.

Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

A lot of great reading here, discovery of the Proto 500, wiring schematics, Touch Tone 500's, post Soviet rotary phones from Latvia, who knew!

[GG]

Solutions:

On that generation of AE dial, the fingerwheel has a tiny hole inside from or next to the digit 6, just inside of the circular ribbed area.

The relatively thin metal piece with four "legs", onto which the fingerwheel is mounted, is what I generically call a "spider."  If the little spring is down between digits 1 and 0, it's on backward.  Take off the screw in the center of it, and it should come off easily.  If it does not come off easily, it was tack-welded to the metal piece behind it, and the only way that could have happened was a manufacturing error (some of them were tack-welded, but should not have gone on backward like that).  If it comes off easily, turn it around so that the metal spring clip is roughly between the digits 5 and 6 on the dial, and then put the screw back on to hold it down.   (Here's how it got screwed up: the last person who worked on that phone tried to re-install the spider in a manner that puts the spring clip approximately where it would be on a WE (or ITT or SC) dial, but that's exactly wrong for an AE dial.

Now at this point you can put your fingerwheel back on and it should mount properly and snap into place.  However don't just put it back on, take advantage of the opportunity to practice removing it, per my instructions below.

Generally: beware of that spring clip. 

On WE dials, it's a tab between digits 9 and 0, and it's easy to press downward to remove the dial by inserting a straightened paper clip.  Rotate the dial all the way around as if dialing zero, keep rotating it further slightly until it reaches its stop at the end of the rotation, then insert the end of a straightened paper clip and press down to push the tab out of engagement with the fingerwheel.  Then while pressing down on the paper clip, continue to rotate the fingerwheel and it will come off and rotate even further.  Release the fingerwheel, let the dial return to rest, and then wiggle the fingerwheel to get it off the spider.

HOWEVER!  AE dials are different, as follows:

You CANNOT just "press down" with the paper clip because doing so will bend up the tab and render it useless.  Instead you need to take a needle nosed pliers and bend the end of the paper clip just a bit out of straight.   Then when you insert the paper clip in that little hole in the fingerwheel, you have to get it "behind" the spring clip, and press the spring clip INWARD toward the center of the dial, rather than "down" as on WE (and ITT and SC) dials.  This takes some fishing around: it is not obvious.

The best way to get used to doing it correctly is:

When you have the fingerwheel off, by whatever means you got it off, unscrew the large screw that holds down the "spider"  Now take off the spider and match it up with the fingerwheel, and get the fingerwheel on it correctly (with the little tab clicking in between the digits 5 and 6, so the end of the fingerwheel is behind the area next to the hole for digit 6).   Now you can see what this looks like, properly mounted, from the rear.  You'll be able to observe the relationship between the end of the spring clip and the tiny hole in the fingerwheel.

OK, now do your thing with the paper clip, as a practice run.  Notice what it takes to get the paper clip behind the spring clip in a manner than enables you to wiggle or twist the paper clip just right to flex the spring clip inward toward the center axis of the dial, thereby disengaging it from the locking point in the plastic fingerwheel and enabling you to rotate the spider to unlock from the fingerwheel.  If you can't get the end of the paper clip behind the spring clip in the right way, then take your needle nosed pliers and bend the paper clip a little more, and try it again.   Practicing this while you can see the back side of the fingerwheel is very helpful for dealing with any future examples of this type you run into.

Practice doing this correctly with the paper clip.

Now take the spider off the fingerwheel, and put it back on the dial (taking care that the spring clip is in the vicinity of the digits 5 and 6).  Then put the fingerwheel back on the dial: starting by putting it on such that the hole for 0 is somewhere around the digits 8 and 9 on the dial, then rotating the fingerwheel counterclockwise until it clicks into place. 

Next you can practice using the paperclip to disengage the spring clip.  Rotate the fingerwheel to fully wound position (dial 0) until it hits the stop, and then use the paper clip to release the spring clip, then rotate the fingerwheel gently a bit further until it clicks out of the spider.  Then release the dial and let it return to normal, and then gently wiggle the fingerwheel off the spider. 

Note, in some cases you will encounter an AE dial of this generation, that is particularly sticky or difficult to get the fingerwheel off.   What to do about that is:  Wind up the dial as if you're going to push a paper clip through the tiny hole in the fingerwheel.  But instead, use a tiny fine screwdriver inserted into the open space between fingerwheel and numberplate, to push the spring clip from the bottom, while twisting the fingerwheel to get it to unlatch.  This is also a dicey operation that will require a very tiny screwdriver to clear the small gaps between fingerwheel and numberplate.

Now you see why AE went to those one-piece fingerwheels that do not use a spider and have a small flat-head screw right in the center that is normally covered by a self-adhesive number label (yes you can't unscrew those without punching through the number label and having to replace it).  Personally I don't much like the one-piece fingerwheels; I'd rather put up with the spider or the earlier versions with the separate number label retainer rings.  If you don't like dealing with spiders and oldschool fingerwheels, use the one-piece kind and send the spiders & oldschool fingerwheels to me or someone else around here who doesn't have a problem with them : - )

[Willytx]

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I had the Western Electric fingerwheel figured out when I was 10 years old, but we never lived outside of Ma Bell country.

It hadn't occurred to me that the spider was on the wrong way. Forest, meet trees. I kept looking for another hole between the 1 and 0. The fingerwheel is pretty bad so anything could be possible. I will put another of the same type back on. The dial card looks much better under glass...er, Lucite. It might be good to get a new spider along with a new fingerwheel, the one on the phone was already bent and my poking at it from underneath with a small screwdriver couldn't have helped much. But hey, at least the dial turns nicely.

Thanks again,

William

[canuckphoneguy]

Thank you for the detailed instructions. I took off the fingerwheel of one of my new monophones and had a LOT of trouble putting it back on. Before I threw it across the room in frustration I thought I'd check this forum for some help. Sure enough, someone posted some helpful information!