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Peroxide Treatment Test

Started by boynblue27, November 07, 2011, 05:29:35 PM

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GG


Hi Boynblue-  "super UV daylight use for reptiles only" is actually very helpful information, because I can plug that into a search, find the generic category of UV light, and then find anything locally that produces the same or similar spectrum.  Thanks!

Re. treating colored phones:  I'd suggest watching the process closely, as in, check on it every 15 minutes of so, and be prepared to take a sponge and wipe off the white goop to check the color, and then sponge the wiped-off goop back on there if it's not quite right yet.  This means starting on a Saturday morning and sticking around to watch it often.  Or if starting later, then before you go to bed or otherwise have to leave, rinse it off and turn off the UV light, and start again the next day. 

Yes I think the camo effect is from uneven application.  What I would do is take a sacrifice case (faded and smashed housing) and apply the stuff in two or three places on the same surface: one place apply it thin, just a wipe over the spot; another place, apply a medium amount; and another place apply a thick goopy quantity.  Then expose to UV light for however-long and compare. 

I don't think there's any other way to find out aside from an empirical trial per above, because:  A thin coating allows more UV to get in, so that should produce a greater degree of bleaching.  But alternately, a thin coat could evaporate and dry out fast, causing it to lose effectiveness faster.   In contrast a thick coating allows less UV light to reach the plastic, so we might expect a lesser degree of bleaching; however it also stays "wet" and thereby stays reactive, for longer than a thin coat that dries up.  So there are reasons to expect that either a thin or a thick treatment would produce the best results, and no way to know except with an actual comparison test. 

ESalter

I tested on part of a blue princess housing and got the same result, so I tried using 10 volume instead, After 3  times of applying it and letting it sit in a sunny window for an hour or so, the fading was diminished and the color wasn't lost.  If you're going to try this on color, low concentration and spread out over a bunch of applications is definitely the way to go.  I don't think this process would work on darker colors like green at all.  ---Eric

Bill

I think most window glass blocks UV ...

Bill

ESalter

How else would setting a phone next to a window make it fade over time?  It blocks a lot, but not all, as far as I know.  ---Eric

Greg G.

#19
Quote from: GG on November 08, 2011, 05:32:20 AM

Guidance on make & model numbers of UV lights would be highly helpful.

I live in the city, where there is nowhere safe to leave something like this outside, because it would be "harvested" by the local recycling thieves or random passers-by.

I live in Seattle, where "bright natural light" is rare and spotty at best.  Maybe a few days in the summer.

I used the retrobright formula and a regular light bulb on a badly yellowed AE 80e.  It took 4 or 5 treatments, but it got it white.  From Phonesrfun's and others experiments on using bleaching on colored phones, I came to the conclusion that it really only works well on white phones.  Check this thread too:  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.0
The idea that a four-year degree is the only path to worthwhile knowledge is insane.
- Mike Row
e

Bill

#20
OK, Eric, if you insist on precision, yuo're right. I didn't mean to imply that it blocks absolutely 100% of UV transmission. But according to an article in Wikipedia, window glass blocks over 90% of UV.  So yes, over the course of years, a phone in a window can become faded from UV, IR, heat, oxygen in the air, cigarette smoke, and most anything else. But as far as bleaching a phone by putting it in a window "for an hour or so" ... maybe not. My purpose was simply to add some knowledge to the bleaching discussion, to keep folks from expecting something that isn't going to happen. Does bleaching solution work? Yes. Does an hour in a window provide any significant enhancement? Probably not. If you prop up the phone in the window and get the bleach on the window sill or your wife's curtains, will it be worth it? Definitely not!

Bill

AE_Collector

#21
Quote from: Phonesrfun on November 10, 2011, 12:23:58 AM

I have heard that someone has had good luck with colored phones, but I don't remember who.

Wasn't it 11Furby11 with an AE 90, possibly a Turquoise one?

Terry

ESalter

I hope you didn't take my post the wrong way, Bill.  I just meant that's what I had been doing and it truly does work.  There must be enough UV getting through to make the process work.  I paint the parts with peroxide and set them in a pan in the window sill(it's a commercial building with BIG windows and nothing on the ledges to make a mess out of, and it usually has direct sunlight in the front windows).  I leave them there for about an hour before I either paint them with more peroxide or rinse them off.  I've found an hour is about max I trust the peroxide to not start to dry up.  I'm sure setting them outside in the real sunlight would work better, but I don't have a convenient way to do so, and ended up finding even through the window still yields results.  ---Eric

kleenax

#23
After reading these 2 threads about "peroxide" and "bleaching", I have to jump in here.

I have experimented with the "RetroBrite" formula, and had GREAT success with an AE Turquoise Spacemakers. So, I wondered what was happening with these various unsuccessful tries by the people posting here. One thing that I have picked up is that you guys don't seem to be following the RetroBrite process at all, but simply smearing peroxide goop and hoping it will work; am I correct?

One of the other main ingredients in the RetroBrite process is "OxyClean", and it plays a very important part in the reversing of the yellowing of the plastics, regardless of their color originally.

I strongly feel that one of the major reasons for my success was the fact that I didn't bother with making a paste to smear on, since I was reasonably certain that if you applied it in that form, it would quickly dry out in various places when exposed to sunlight or ANY light for that matter. What I did to solve this problem was to instead create an "aqueous solution", allowing me to completely submerge the parts to be treated in the solution, and it works!

Adding the Oxy-Clean to the solution seems to be just the trick too, because in short order, the parts literally begin to bubble just as if the solution was Seven-Up or something! You have to be careful and check the parts regularly too, because the bubbles will actually collect in certain areas and literally "float" the parts and lift them right out of the solution!

If your solution isn't bubbling, it's not oxidizing. In a nutshell, according to the geeks that came up with the RetroBrite process, you are attempting to reverse the yellowing of the fire-retardant chemicals in the ABS plastics.

I may be wrong, but my process worked VERY well, and I pretty much stuck to their original formula with the exception of NOT making the solution into a salve, and instead simply made a solution that really looks like carbonated water!

I also wanted to add that BEFORE you attempt to treat your phones parts with the RetroBrite process, you should make sure to clean them thoroughly. I completely dis-assemble and clean in warm water with some dish-washing liquid and some ammonia. The ammonia will cut the grease much better than just the dish-washing liquid alone. I let them soak for an hour or so, then gently scrub them with a soft nylon-bristled brush, followed by a good rinsing in clear water.
Ray Kotke
Recumbent Casting, LLC

AE_Collector

Hi Ray:

I have never tried the Retrobright process or the Peroxide process. I just keep listening an watching because I certainly have some candidates for treatments like this.

It seems to me that the following discussion got the peroxide process going on this forum with seemingly amazing results.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4658.msg59438#msg59438

Terry

Dan

I have had great success with Ivory and white phones. Salmon colored pink ones did just ok. My green was swirled , but I managed to sand it out and make it presentable.
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright

GG



Ray, do you have measurements for the quantities of ingredients in your Retrobright mix, and the quantity of mix and water you use for the "submerge" treatment?   

Also, what brand of UV light are you using or would you recommend?, or what specifications should I use to search for one?  (keeping in mind, long wave vs. short wave)

Interesting about adding ammonia to dish detergent & water as a cleaner: I'm always reluctant to mix cleaning chemicals but this is obviously safe so I should get over it.

To keep the stuff from floating in the water, how'bout this:

Put a small rock in each end of the receiver and screw the cap back on.  Take a metal bar that's roughly the length of the main housing, drill holes in it to match the baseplate holes, and screw that to the housing using the original screws. 

For plastic dial numberplates, just put a small rock in the center to hold them at the bottom of the container, face up. 

I recall someone saying that there are certain plastics one should never use Retrobright on because it will dissolve them.  I have a Swiss phone that's seriously yellow but it was originally a white ivory.  The plastic does not appear to be bakelite, it appears more like WE hard plastic but thicker, and is definitely not WE soft plastic (Tenite).  I also have a 2-tone green GPO 706 (actually Ericsson N-1900, with PAX transmission network, but anyway:-), housing is ABS, that could benefit from the treatment.  Any precautionary notes for those?  And/or if I test on a small spot and the plastic starts to soften, can that situation be stopped by rinsing like crazy with cold water? 

Greg G.

#27
Quote from: kleenax on November 12, 2011, 08:24:15 PM
After reading these 2 threads about "peroxide" and "bleaching", I have to jump in here.

I have experimented with the "RetroBrite" formula, and had GREAT success with an AE Turquoise Spacemakers. So, I wondered what was happening with these various unsuccessful tries by the people posting here. One thing that I have picked up is that you guys don't seem to be following the RetroBrite process at all, but simply smearing peroxide goop and hoping it will work; am I correct?

I don't recall who or where the thread is, but somebody experimented with some stuff they found in Canada called "White Magic".  It was a cream hair coloring/bleaching product.  They used it by applying it directly to a colored phone with good results, so I think that may be why some are experimenting with just the cream versions of Peroxide and skipping the Retrobrite formula.  I compared the ingredients of White Magic to the cream versions of Peroxide, and they weren't the same, so I never bothered with them.  I checked several local hair supply and drug stores in my area (Seattle), could not find White Magic anywhere.  It couldn't be found online anywhere either.

Quote from: kleenax on November 12, 2011, 08:24:15 PM

I strongly feel that one of the major reasons for my success was the fact that I didn't bother with making a paste to smear on, since I was reasonably certain that if you applied it in that form, it would quickly dry out in various places when exposed to sunlight or ANY light for that matter. What I did to solve this problem was to instead create an "aqueous solution", allowing me to completely submerge the parts to be treated in the solution, and it works!

Care to share the specific recipe and procedures?  The "paste" recipe of Retrobrite was one of the things that I found a little difficult to manage.  I'm all for letting something soak for a while.  That's how I clean all phones I acquire, by submersing the non-electrical parts in Oxiclean and warm water for a while.
The idea that a four-year degree is the only path to worthwhile knowledge is insane.
- Mike Row
e

AE_Collector

#28
Quote from: Brinybay on November 13, 2011, 12:30:19 PM

I don't recall who or where the thread is, but somebody experimented with some stuff they found in Canada called "White Magic".  It was a cream hair coloring/bleaching product.

Brinybay:

Check the link I posted abave in reply 24. I think that was the one that started it all here.

Terry

Greg G.

#29
Quote from: AE_collector on November 13, 2011, 07:06:45 PM
Quote from: Brinybay on November 13, 2011, 12:30:19 PM

I don't recall who or where the thread is, but somebody experimented with some stuff they found in Canada called "White Magic".  It was a cream hair coloring/bleaching product.

Brinybay:

Check the link I posted abave in reply 24. I think that was the one that started it all here.

Terry

Yep, that's it, thanks!  Still would like to get my hands on some of that White Magic.
The idea that a four-year degree is the only path to worthwhile knowledge is insane.
- Mike Row
e