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Princess 2702 BMG not working help!

Started by Twodotts, August 18, 2017, 06:42:13 PM

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Twodotts

Hi,
I am new to this forum.  Hope I am posting correctly in the right category. I have very little knowledge
on phone repair so please bear with me.  I purchased a princess 2702 BMG and it was advertised
as a working phone. I contacted the seller after receiving the phone and they assured me it had been tested and performed all functions. I also purchased a transformer and  a splitter jack so the light
would work. The phone has a dialtone but you cant dial out or receive calls, the light does not work.
The phone does ring when we get an incoming call.  I would really appreciate any help that you can give me. I have wanted one of these princess phones for a long time and would really like to get it
working.
Thank you,
Twodotts

compubit

Splitting the issue into two parts:

1) You can't dial out.
2) The light doesn't work.
I'm assuming otherwise the phone is working (you get a dial town and can answer a call; you did mention that the phone rings.

1) if when you press the tone keys, the receiver (where you'd hear the tones) is muted, and you sorts of hear a little "blip" of something, then you probably have reversed polarity on the line or in the cord. Swap the red and green connectors (connection points L1 and L2 on the network, I believe) coming from the line jack (inside the phone) and chances are that the tone pad will work.

2) This will take a Little more troubleshooting, as there are several things it could be:
- bad transformer
- miswired jack
- bad light bulb
- 4 conductor cable
In this case, a Volt meter is extremely useful.
- Ensure you have a 4-conductor phone cable - a 2 conductor cable doesn't have the wires for the light
- Verify that the transformer is generating 6-8 V? The standard 2012C transformer generates ~8 VAC.  If you have an aftermarket transformer generating only 5V, it may not provide enough current for the lamp.
- Connect everything, remove the lamp, and see if you have ~6V across the lamp connectors. If not, the somewhere inside, something's not connected right.  I'm attaching the 2702BMG schematic.  You are interested in the yEllow and black wires coming from the line jack, as well as terminal strip connectors 1-4. Also make sure the Orange and Blue wires from the hookswitch mechanism are connected, as they 'turn on' the light.

As mentioned, having a Volt meter is extremely helpful in troubleshooting.  Let us know how it goes.

Jim

I hope this helps get you started

A phone phanatic since I was less than 2 (thanks to Fisher Price); collector since a teenager; now able to afford to play!
Favorite Phone: Western Electric Trimline - it just feels right holding it up to my face!

Twodotts

Hi Jim,
Thanks for taking the time to help me.
Here Is some more info:
The phone rings but when you answer you cant hear anything.
The phone does have a polarity guard so could I still have a polarity problem?
The transformer is new not original to the phone and has a modular jack on the end.
I do have a new four wire cable on phone.
I am not sure if the bulb is good.

Thank you,
Twodotts

compubit

Quick follow up questions:

1) Do you have a volt meter (or at least a continuity tester)? - a Volt meter will often have a continuity tester with audible sound, so that you can see I feel you have continuity between two points in the phone
2) when you answer the phone, you can't hear them, but can they hear you? Also, do you hear the dial tone if you just lift the handset?

Jim
A phone phanatic since I was less than 2 (thanks to Fisher Price); collector since a teenager; now able to afford to play!
Favorite Phone: Western Electric Trimline - it just feels right holding it up to my face!

Twodotts

Jim,
I don't have a volt meter right now but I can get one.
No the other person cant hear me either.
Yes I do hear a dialtone when I lift the handset.

compubit

Interesting...

Do you have a second phone you can connect along with this phone, so that you can hear the dial tone on both phones? This way you can test the transmitter and receiver on the princess (do you hear each other over the dial tone)?

As for the tone pad - unless the thing was damaged in transit or just failed... I would check each connection and make sure each one is secure and not loose.  From there, once you have the volt meter, check the continuity of the wires. These phones are fairly resilient, so unless something truly fails (there could be something in the tone pad), it's hard to truly foul them up.

Jim
A phone phanatic since I was less than 2 (thanks to Fisher Price); collector since a teenager; now able to afford to play!
Favorite Phone: Western Electric Trimline - it just feels right holding it up to my face!

Twodotts

Jim,
My husband picked up the phone in the living room and I was on the pincess in the bedroom I could hear him, but he couldn't hear me.

When your talking about the tone pad exactly what connections are you referring to.  This is all new to me.

Thanks

Victor Laszlo

#7
The telephone model number is 2702 BMG. Let me explain first what those numbers and letters mean:

27xx is a Princess phone. The 2702 is one of a family of those models.

The B is just a letter assigned by the manufacturer to denote some minor change in the design. It should not concern us.

The "M" denotes that the telephone is equipped with Modular cords. Those are the ones with which you are familiar, that have a plug on each end.

Now we come to the important letter, which my colleagues have unfortunately overlooked in their well-meaning advice.  The "G" indicates that the telephone is equipped with a "Polarity Guard" which is the easy way of saying that the polarity (plus & minus voltage) of the phone line is not critical. In the early days of touch tone dialing, the dials were polarity conscious, meaning that were the two line wires (called Tip and Ring, abbreviated on schematics as T and R) to be reversed, the dial would not function.

So, any problem(s) you may be experiencing with a dial that fails to operate correctly will not be due to a line reversal UNLESS SOMEONE HAS BYPASSED THE POLARITY GUARD, which is highly unlikely.

You can eliminate, therefore, any concerns about reversed polarity as you continue to trouble-shoot the problems.

compubit

Quote from: Twodotts on August 18, 2017, 11:19:56 PM
Jim,
My husband picked up the phone in the living room and I was on the pincess in the bedroom I could hear him, but he couldn't hear me.

When your talking about the tone pad exactly what connections are you referring to.  This is all new to me.

Thanks

That's why you're here!

Now it'll start to get a little more complicated...

The fact that you can hear him and he can't hear you, plus the Touch Tone pad not making sounds helps narrow it down.  I know you're new to this, so you probably don't have many "extra parts" lying around, but if you can swap handsets and coiled handset cables between 2 phones, that can eliminate them from the equation.

Last night I had a phone where I could hear the other end, but they couldn't hear me. I removed the transmitter cover (part of the handset near the cord) and had to bend the metal slightly upwards to ensure that the transmitter was making contact with the transmitter (once I did that, two way communication).

Second (which is probably where the issue is), is that the Touch Tone pad may be muting the transmitter (which I believe it does when a key is pressed), but in your case, no key is being pressed (one of the Touch Tone pad contacts may have bent or slipped off of the mechanism). 

At this point, look for any broken wires or metal strips on the pad which may have slipped off of a mechanism.  you may need to take the pad apart (or at least the plastic cover off), and that's not a pretty thing to do... (I stay away from trying do anything to any of the touch tone pads - the older ones can be very finicky with their coils, the newer ones are electronic and don't have any repairable parts). Ma Bell would just replace them in the field, and send back to a repair shop, where they had the tools, experience and patience to attempt a repair, if they even tried...

Plus with the compactness of the Princess phone, working on it gets a little tough, especially if you have larger hands (like I do!).

Jim

A phone phanatic since I was less than 2 (thanks to Fisher Price); collector since a teenager; now able to afford to play!
Favorite Phone: Western Electric Trimline - it just feels right holding it up to my face!

Twodotts

Hi,
Here is an update on the Princess 2702 BMG
After checking what we could with no results we decided to purchase another phone and put the blue cover on it. This phone works and is the same model as the first one, but the ringer does not work.

So now I have the first phone that wont dial out or receive calls, light does not work, but the ringer works.!!!

Second phone dials out and receives calls, light works, but ringer does not work!!!

How hard would it be to take ringer from first phone and put in second phone for someone who
Knows very little about phones?

Thanks, Vicki

Ktownphoneco

Hi Vicki   ....  Before you switch ringers, try opening the replacement set and make sure the two ringer wires are connected.     The red wire connects to screw terminal "K" on the network, and black connects to terminal "L1" on the network.    People will on occasion, silence the ringer for whatever reason, and remove one or both wires in order to do that.

Jeff Lamb

.....

Hi Vicki,

Welcome to CRPF.

Twodotts

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for info, we checked the phone and no red wire on terminal K. It looks like the red wire from the ringer is enclosed in yellow plastic protecter. I took a picture so you could check it out.
Thanks

Ktownphoneco

Hi Vicki   ....   I don't see a black colored wire connected to "L1" either, so I suspect the ringer has been disconnected at some point in it's past.    It appears that the red wire from the ringer "may" be connected to to a black wire inside the yellow sleeve so they're isolated and stored.     I'll put a small bet on the fact that the black wire inside the yellow sleeve is also from the ringer.
Trace that black wire and see if in fact it goes back to the ringer.     If so, the red and black ringer wires may be inserted into a spade splice connector.     Carefully wiggle them back and forth while holding onto the actual spade connectors, not the wires, and apply a little pressure to get them apart.     Once they're out of the yellow sleeve and the spade type splicer is removed from both spade connectors, attach ringer wire to their proper location on the network ( red to "K" and black to "L1"  ).     Once done just hold the hook switch down and call whatever line the telephone is connected to and see if it rings.

Jeff

Twodotts

Hi Jeff,
I did what you said and the ringer works.  You have made my day !!!!!!!!!
Thanks so much for all your help, I really appreciate your time.

Thanks again,
Vicki