WE, or about any Common Batt phone

[RB]

Already have that. this is to add CB support for CB phones connected to the same switchboard.
I have been reading a lot, and in the lit, it describes the different option wiring.
Specifically, regarding the RB relay, having been modified to be a "Q" version, needing to be removed...
I assume this is intended to return the cord set to factory configuration?
I am configuring my station mock ups to be able to switch the sleeve in and out during testing.
From the lit info, I am finding that the cord set behaves differently, depending on station to station, or station to trunk functions.
that's prob why I keep seein things work correctly once, then fail again.
Will update post again, when I have more facts to apply to this thing.

[trainman]

All station line jacks would be identical. so, therefore all cord sleeves would be grounded on a station line circuit.

Each station phone had battery flowing through it when you pick up the handset. that is how the station lamp lights. that battery source doesnt come the cord circuit.

when the right cord plugs in, you can see the contacts in the jack disconnecting one battery source, probably coming the power supply via pin 11?, and now the cord circuit supplys battery.  on the scematic you can see how this is done, and how the sleeve gets grounded to the frame of the pbx.

do you even have a trunk? there is an ebay seller who has a couple trunk units out of one these 500 series pbxs.

i dont know if it can ever work totally correct. you aremissing a lot of other stuff in the way.

all cord units came from the factory wired for THROUGH SUPERVISION, so you can change the option to match with that, I suppose.  if you have the AD relay, then the supervision is different. but from my reading, it seems that only comes into play when you are dealing with outside calls. simply talking to to extension phones, it doesnt enter into the circuit. i could be wrong. im not totally understanding about central office stuff.

[trainman]

if your RB relay has contacts, that is Option Q. all the former Options J, K, W, T which were hardwired, were removed. these were changed to ZW, ZX, ZY, ZZ.  these formerly hardwired options were just extended to the contacts on the RB relay. they just did this to make it easier to change the options by simply insulating or not insulating the contacts.

The new options were  Through Supervision ZX  Non Trought Supervision ZW.

The remaining are dealing with the Holding Bridge resistence


Option J or K have to do with the Supervision. J was Through, K was Non Through.

Options W or T have to do with selecting the resistance in the Holding Bridge.

Option P was the RB replay that did not have contacts.

[RB]

Wow! thank you for that info!!!
lights are coming on all over with this thing.
I did not know there were Sooooo many pieces to these things.
i have the station jacks wired, and working for the most part. will finish them tonite.
I do not have a trunk, OR an AD relay on this thing. just tryin to get two phones to talk to each other. with the sup lites, I like that feature.
Happy to know the through supervision was already in this cord set. Just gotta get it to work correctly.
The Right cord gets power from the RB relay. and the left, from the CS Relay. the CS relay, takes turns working/not working.
and I am having trouble with the S relay releasing when call terminated. I think thats part of why it acts up when I try to add the left cord to the mix.
I will look into the "Z" options closer. was ignoring them at first, but seems like I gotta include them now.
Thanks again for the help!!

[trainman]

The S relay isnt going to release until the cord is removed from the jack, removing the cord sleeve from ground.

[RB]

Yeah, thats what I figured, but...nope... seems to stay locked on until power is removed. very odd.
I think half the battle, is in knowin how it is intended to work.
The info you provided will help me through it. it is close, I can feel it!
Will have more info tomorrow.

[trainman]

If you look at your talk and dial relay, does it have a shaft and lever attachet to it that goes to the front of the cord unit? I ask because there is an ebay seller who has a cord unit for sale. It has the exact same J number as yours, with the other notations, and the one he pictured for sale has no cords, no lens caps, and it is missing its lever and shaft that would operate the talk and dial relay as well as opening the night and through dial switch.

The S relay not releasing is what my board does if I push in the night and through dial lever after the S relay was picked up.

[trainman]

My 555 co4d unit. Mine does not have the  RB relay with contacts. Attached to this lever is a square piec of brass with an insulated tip. That is what open the night and through dial switch when you push the lever. That switch should be closed unless the station is dialing its own.

[RB]

I may be wrong on the S relay releasing, so many tests, so many different trys... will chk tonite, and post findings tomorrow.
I think the ebay seller you saw, is the same one I bought my cord set from, same condition.
no shaft connecting to talk switch. but nite switch is closed by default, so should be good.

[trainman]

I dont know if makes a difference, but if the talk and dial lever was tirned to the right, the operators handset is patched in the circuit, and the operator can also dial an outgoing call.  Lever straight up, is not patched in, and operator cant dial.

[RB]

tried that too. all is in idle condition
workin through the individual relay switches, one at a time.
gotta find out why when you add second phone, first drops out, i mean, DEAD. very strange operation. does the same thing either way, rite first, or left first, same result.
I am sure it is my not understanding how exactly these sets react to various conditions.
But, I WILL find the bug. lol

[RB]

More interesting stuff I have discovered.
I site the photo of the right side"primarily".
If my understanding is remotely correct, when you plug in the right plug, current follows the black path to the S relay, which pulls. and, so does the AS relay.
This, it seems, puts a dead short from T relay pin 2, " blue line", to the right sleeve, which is grounded. or, am I trippin ?
Now, I am assuming here, that the schematic I am using, SD-66520-01, is at least, mostly correct?
There are some weird things goin on with this cord set. I would like to know what this one was configured to do? I may need to reconfigure it so it works as supposed to. 
It is fun, but puzzling at this point.
You can run...little buggies, but you can not hide for long lol

[trainman]

my understanding is the T relay only operates if you plugged into a trunk unit. and  since you dont have those, i cant see what would make the T relay operate.

the ground path for the S relay is correct. and the AS relay picks  due to loop current flowing in  the telephone. since the right cord operation seems to work, im assuming plugged into your jack, try the left cord only with clip leads. could also be your  jack might be shorting out.

I recall reading back, you have battery on  the cord sleeve on the left cord. this is true, only if you had plugged into a trunk unit to try to place outisde calls. that picks T relay. this is where the cord supervision comes into play.

if you are just trying to make the two phones talk to each other, you need ground on the cord sleeve of the left cord. this wont operate the T relay. which is what you want. you dont want the t relay picking up. i think this is why you keep losing one of the phones.

Also disconnect what is connected to pin 11 coming from the power supply. Im confused as if that is a battery feed, kr it needs to be ground.

[RB]

Ok, i am following you. The T relay only pulls when left cord plugged into a trunk. not into a station.Yeah, I think that's where the polarity shift comes in.
The station jacks seem, to be ok, but i will try tonite with clip leads to verify function.
So, the cord set only supplies power to the right cord sleeve? not both?
if there is power on the left cord sleeve, it should only be coming from a trunk connection?
And are the sup lites are supposed to work only in a left cord in trunk condition?
Then what do the lites do when there is only station to station connection?
maybe i am mis understanding some of the intended functionality of the cord set?
and expecting too much? would not doubt that!
Thank you for taking the time to explain to me how it works! that info can only come from wisdom. and i need that!
hopefully these new tests will be productive.

[trainman]

Yes, you are a little confused about operation.

Trunk is a connection to an outside line. There are seperate trunk units for the switchboard, which you dont have.

When connecting to a Trunk, the left cord has battery on the cord sleeve that is supplied from the Trunk jack. In making a Trunk connection, the T relay operates from Battery in the Trunk jack. T relay operates, disconnecting S relay. This removes power from the cord unit. At this point, the Central Office supplies power. So, this would kill your two phones trying to talk to each other. Also T relay switches the cord supervison and the Retard coil in circuit. Again, only is used in placing an outside call. Not in making two phones talk to each other in house.

So, if you have battery on the left cord sleeve, you are trying to simulate placing an outside call.

So, you need ground on the left cord sleeve. Then everything should operate normally as in trying to get two extension phones to talk to each other. And in this condition, the cord unit is supplying power to operate phones and relays. And yes, the cord unit supplies power to both cords

So, left cord with battery on sleeve, picks up T relay. Which is used only for placing outside calles with the trunk unit. Also kills power supplied by cord unit. Central Office supplies battery here.

So, Ground on left cord sleeve is what you want to get two extension phones to talk to each other. And here, the cord unit supplies the power.

Hope this is a better understanding. All station jacks are wired identical. And all station jacks put ground on both cord sleeves.

And then there are the seperate Trunk units which put battery on the left sleeve only when plugged unto a trunk unit. The left cord would always plug into a trunk unit if placing outside calls.

Remember. Right cord always answers the first extension phone. If the caller wants another extension, then operator woukd use left cord to connect station.  If the same caller wanted to place an outside call, the operator plugs left cord into a trunk jack.

If the operator answered an incoming outside call, she olaces left cord in trunk jack to answer it.

Supervisory lights on the cord unit shoukd work as intended. Its trying to tie a light in with the station jacks that is best left untik later, once we get the cord unit operating in the right sequence for the intended operation of trying to just get two extension phones to talk together.