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B1A Ringer Clapper Repair

Started by TelePlay, July 27, 2013, 09:23:38 PM

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TelePlay

Searched the forum and found nothing about this.

This may sound crazy but I'm thinking of moving a clapper from a bad B1A to a very nice B1A that is missing its clapper. The bad ringer coils are shorted out and the frame is heavily corroded. The ringer with the missing clapper is in great shape except for that little hole where the clapper wire once existed.

Can a clapper wire be removed without damaging it? Anyone ever do or try this? I'll cut it out if I have to. Once removed, any suggestions on keeping it in the good ringer mount? I seem to remember having a 302 about 40 years ago in which the clapper wire came out on its own.

It's maybe not worth the effort but I'd really like to save the good ringer and can if I can move the clapper.

Thanks for any and all help.

Bill

In the photo, I can't tell if the little black circular spot at the base of the clapper wire (a retainer, I guess) is a setscrew (almost looks like an Allen head) or more likely a rivet. If a setscrew, removal should be easy. If the latter, you should be able to drill it out. If the clapper wire is loose in its new mount, I would be tempted to drill and tap, and put in a black Allen head setscrew.

Or am I misreading the photo?

Bill

TelePlay

Bill, that photo was one I grabbed as an example for someone else on the forum.

These are the photos of the good and bad B1A ringer I have.

The first is a comparison of each showing the bad condition of the one on the left and the good one on the right that needs a clapper wire.

The second photo is of where the clapper wire goes into the assembly. You can also see that the thing holding it together, with the frame, is a long, thin brass rivet, not a set screw. It seems like the 3 things held by the assembly are all press fit into the small block of metal (clapper, spring and thick arm).

The last photo is a close up of the bad ringer with green lines showing what I think I am going to cut out to free the clapper wire. You can actually see the two clamp marks just above the green line which were most likely used to hold the thick arm into the metal. It also show the mounting rivet and the poor condition of that ringer.

HarrySmith

Before cutting I would recommend drilling the rivet on the bad one. I appears the "mount" for the arm and the spring would then seperate in half. I that works you can then drill the good one to install the arm. You can either drill & tap for a set screw as suggested earlier or re rivet.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

twocvbloke

Wouldn't it be easier just to unscrew the coils, remove the clapper assembly, clean it up with a wire brush (and polish, if you must!!) & lube it, then fit it onto the good ringer instead? Seems like a lot of effort to go through if just undoing 2 screws instead would work... ???

Can't see the back end or underside to see if the clapper assembly is removable though, so just guessing as to what could be done... :)

TelePlay

#5
Quote from: twocvbloke on August 04, 2013, 09:30:19 PM
Wouldn't it be easier just to unscrew the coils, remove the clapper assembly, clean it up with a wire brush (and polish, if you must!!) & lube it, then fit it onto the good ringer instead? Seems like a lot of effort to go through if just undoing 2 screws instead would work... ???

Can't see the back end or underside to see if the clapper assembly is removable though, so just guessing as to what could be done... :)

What you see is the tubular end of a thin brass rivet. The other side has the head about twice the size of the rounded out tubular. Yes, removing the screws would work but in the thread about loss of magnetism, Jorge didn't know if a B1A would react the same was as a C4 ringer out of a 500. He did some testing on that type of ringer and found that the magnets lost about half their strength immediately upon removing the coils with the magnets from the frame.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=845.msg91403#msg91403

As soon as I get some test equipment set up, I am going to remove these coils (since they are shorted out anyway) and see if their is a magnetic loss.

Except for the missing clapper and the two gongs, both of which I can use from the bad ringer, the good ringer frame is in very good condition. My main concern is loosing the good ringer if I take the coils and magnets out of their frame. That's why it would be so much easier to remove the clapper wire from the bad ringer and fit it into the good ringer.

Hope that made sense. It's those two screws and the magnets they hold that keep me from doing just that without knowing what will happen to the flux field upon removing the magnets from their "keeper" frame.

Bill

#6
Wow, I would not under any circumstances try removing the coils. The consequences - possible permanent loss of magnetism - are just too high to take the risk.

Question: If you make the cut (green line in the picture) and then disassemble the cut piece of the block to get the clapper wire out, what leads you to think that you can insert the clapper wire into the hole in the new ringer? I'm thinking that it will likely not fit.

I'm still in favor of drilling the head off the brass tubular rivet on both ringers. You can then insert a "drift" into the body of the rivet (a properly-sized nail with the point filed flat will work) to push the remainder of the rivet out the back side. This should release the clamps enough that you can pull the clapper wire out of the old ringer and insert it into the new ringer. At that point, you need to re-clamp the block in the new ringer, which you can do with a new rivet (pop rivet, probably), or by drilling and tapping for a set screw.

Let us know how you decide to handle it, and how it works out. And of course, beware of the metal "whiskers" that any of these operations might cause.

Bill

twocvbloke

I forgot about the magnetism thing, not that it's hard for me to forget things...  :D