What is the difference between a WE 354 and 252

[winkydink]

I just purchased what I thought was a WE 354 on ebay.  When I took it out of the box, I found that it had markings of 252 AW and "3-53".

Of course I know that the 3-53 means March 1953, but I am not sure what the difference is between a 354 and a 252 ?

Any one have any idea.

Also, pictures to follow.

[G-Man]

I just purchased what I thought was a WE 354 on ebay.  When I took it out of the box, I found that it had markings of 252 AW and "3-53".

Of course I know that the 3-53 means March 1953, but I am not sure what the difference is between a 354 and a 252 ?

Any one have any idea.

Also, pictures to follow.

The 252-series was sold to independent telephone companies. The main differences were that they did not have Bell System markings and had a provision for mounting a frequency ringer.

[paul-f]

There's some reference info posted here:
 
   http://www.paul-f.com/we300typ.htm#Single

[winkydink]

OK, so as I said, I will post pictures.

My question is, if there is a harmonic ringer, can this be used with todays phone service, or do I need to replace it with a "normal" WE 302/354 ringer ?

Can the harmonic ringer be modified to work with today's land lines ?

[winkydink]

OK so here are some pictures.

It does look like a Western Electric Ringer to me.  The ringer is dated 1-50 and is 4 wires.

the induction coil however is a 101A coil and not a 101B.  Now in my limited experience, I have never hooked up a 4 wire ringer to a 101A only to a 101B.  Can anyone tell me what the CORRECT wiring would be.

Additionally, there is a little rust on the back plate (see photos).  Any suggestions for removing the rust (dremmel) and then protecting the metal so it will not re-rust ?

Opinions on if this is a WE ringer and wiring suggestions are allways welcome !

Thanks

[HarrySmith]

Looks like a WE ringer to me. You can use the 302 diagram here:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2762.0

[winkydink]

Looks like a WE ringer to me. You can use the 302 diagram here:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2762.0

The problem with that diagram is that it is a 4 wire ringer going to a 101B induction coil.  I have a 101 A induction coil in the phone.

Currently the way the ringer is wired is as follows.

The Black wire is connected to L1 on the 101A Induction Coil
The Red Wire is connected to K - (Also connected to "K" is the slate Wire from the 195A condenser)
Red/Slate and Slate are connected together on the jumper block

Now this is different from the diagram which has

Black to K (and slate from 195A condenser connected to K)
Red connected to L1 on jumper block
Red/Slate and Slate connected to gether on GRND


It looks like the Black wire and Red wire from the ringer of my phone are reversed from the diagram

[paul-f]

Ringer circuits are almost always simply putting the ringer windings and capacitor in series across L1 and L2.  The model of coil is irrelevant, as you only use the L1 and L2 screws as contact points.

In the case of 4-wire ringers, each coil has it's wires brought out, rather than having them wired in series internally.  You can connect two of the wires together to wire them in series.  Check out the WE 354 diagram in the Library:

 http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=321&Itemid=11

(Or browse to Wiring Diagrams / Western Electric / 300-series / 354

If your phone is wired correctly, it's time to check the coils for an open or short circuit and the capacitor for a short circuit.

[winkydink]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your comments and help.

I guess this is my fault.  I actually don't know if it will ring or not (have not tried).  My experience with phones when they arrive, is that they are not wired properly.

I will try the phone later today.

My point was, it appears that the black and red wires are switched between the diagram and the actual wiring of the phone.  In THEORY would this make a difference ?

[paul-f]

My point was, it appears that the black and red wires are switched between the diagram and the actual wiring of the phone.  In THEORY would this make a difference ?

No.  In theory or in practice, the AC ringing signal doesn't care about polarity.  It's also not important whether the capacitor is "before" or "after" the ringer coil in the circuit - just that they are wired in series.

[Sargeguy]

Electronically a 252 is supposedly identical to a 302, a 354 is identical to a 304.  The two examples I have both have the two-wire WE ringer.

[winkydink]

Here is an update.

I have hooked the phone up and yes indeed, it has a dial tone, will dial out (I need to send the dial away to have it cleaned and timed), and also will ring !

So now I know that the wiring is correct, the ringer is not a frequency ringer, and the phone is in good shape for the cleaning/restoration process.

Thanks again everyone.


One last question:  252 AW - does the AW mean dial blank (i.e. manufactured with no dial ?)

[winkydink]

Electronically a 252 is supposedly identical to a 302, a 354 is identical to a 304.  The two examples I have both have the two-wire WE ringer.

That is what I thought, but there is a WE 4 wire ringer in there.  The phones manufacture date was 3/53 but the ringer is 1/50.

As I said before there is also a 101A induction coil, which goes along with your theory of being identical to the 302.

[paul-f]

One last question:  252 AW - does the AW mean dial blank (i.e. manufactured with no dial ?)

You probably forgot.  Please re-read the entry in
  http://www.paul-f.com/we300typ.htm#Single

A = No dial
W = No Bell System markings.

[winkydink]

One last question:  252 AW - does the AW mean dial blank (i.e. manufactured with no dial ?)

You probably forgot.  Please re-read the entry in
  http://www.paul-f.com/we300typ.htm#Single

A = No dial
W = No Bell System markings.

Thanks !