Single Slot lock Notes

[DavePEI]

I have always drilled payphone locks that I couldn't get keys for, but wanted to post this alternative method championed by Jim Engle.

Basically you tape all around the lock face with multiple layers of duct or electrical tape to prevent phone damage if you slip.

Then stick a large flatblade screwdriver made of quality steel into the keyway and just keep wiggling it back and forth as you carefully enlarge and bend away the keyway and keyway bezel. I used a Craftsman 3/16 flat blade - knowing Sears would replace it if it breaks . After awhile the bezel crumbles and you can remove the keyway plug with needlenose pliers.

An example of another lock unlocked using this message is posted below.

You then can see the brass levers - in my case there were 6 levers. The upper housing locks are either 5 or 6 levers, the cash vault locks are normally 8 levers to be
more secure. Then you take the screwdriver and again bend and pry on the levers bending, breaking, and removing pieces with the needlenose pliers until all 6 have been destroyed.

Slide open the bolt with the pliers and turn the T key.

It took me just under 2 hours as I was extremely careful to not get into the phone housing. This only works on the upper housing locks as you have the full access to the large lock head bezel that holds the keyway plug. The cash vault doors only have a small hole for the key which makes this process impossible. Jim used to do this on a regular basis as a Bell repairman since people would stuff nails, wire, etc in to damage the locks - why, cause they could I guess.

Oliver Seidler

Now, as I mentioned, I have always drilled locks, but it can be an unforgiving job, and you will go through many bits. This seems reasonable, and if I do it will likely score the outer edge of the chrome ring to make it easier to remove (rather than simply nibbling it). This could be done with a Dremel and a cutting blade). First as it says above, tape around the lock thoroughly to prevent damage to the phone.

I am still awaiting some keys to try in my NE Panel phones (NE22QD), but if they take much longer or don't work, this is the method I will use to remove them. This process will only work in locks that look similar to the photo below.

On the panel phones, I will remove the stainless panel on the right before taping the lock to further protect against damaging the phone.

Dave

[DavePEI]

As I have had no lick finding keys for my panel payphones, I decided to give this technique a try. Alas, it sounds much easier than it is. Mind you, it only works with locks of the more modern 30C type (with vanes which are deflected by the key indentations, rather than pins in a cylinder). These are more commonly used in single slot payphones.

Once I got the keyway out of the lock, I was faced with a number of horizontal vanes coming from the left hand side of the lock. These were made mostly of a springy brass material. I found it was very difficult to break them off, as they would merely bend. I am still at it, but am going to use a set of needle nose pliers which will grip the vanes better....

Drilling would not have been the answer in this lock, either. Once you drilled down trough the keyway, you would still have been foiled by the vanes, all of which will have to come out before the bolt could be pulled back..

After playing with this style of lock, I feel your best bet would be a vibratory removal of the screws, similar to what some suggest using a hammer drill for - to rotate the screws out by vibrating the lock. Alas, I have tried this before, and failed - perhaps since my hammer drill doesn't vibrate enough? However, I do feel people should try this before the more invasive destruction of the lock.I do have an air chisel that I may try  ext to beat the heck out of the lock and see it it might  help make the screws back out...

More to come!

Dave

[tallguy58]

This key works for all payphones.

Heck this key works for all locks, period!

[DavePEI]

This key works for all payphones.

Heck this key works for all locks, period!

I'll bet it does!

I am going to try something different today. I mentioned my hammer drill doesn't seem to have enough "oomph" to back off the screws on a lock - I am going to try my air chisel! Now, that should have enough oomph! Just put the tapered shaft in it, drop tht into the shell of the lock, and let it blast away! Mind you, it may undo every screw on the phone 

Update: Later the same day. I have decided to buy another hammer drill to try it. Hopefully this one will work as it should and safely vibrate the screws out! I am a little scared that the air chisel will damage the phone with its aggressive action.

Dave

[HarrySmith]

Probably a good choice. I was anxious about the air chisel.  It would definetly shake things up inside the phone! It is also very noisy!

[DavePEI]

Probably a good choice. I was anxious about the air chisel.  It would definetly shake things up inside the phone! It is also very noisy!

That was pretty much out of frustration. The hammer drill I have now was bought for my Millennium phone project, only it never worked properly on the hammer function. In fact there is little or do difference the way it works in hammer or drill mode.

But today, I decided to get another, and hopefully its hammer mode will work properly. I should have sent the other back when it didn't work, but let it slide until its warantee ran out. About all I use a hammer drill for is payphones, and with three locks to remove on three very nice panel phones, I guess it is minimally worth it. Oddly, one of the phones had its coin box key fastened to the handset cord with a wire tie, so at last that is one lock I don't have to worry about.

As always, I will report back to the group. I have always heard about people opening their single slots with hammer drills, but lacking a working hammer drill, I won't have tried it until the new drill arrives. Hopefully it will work out, as the method this thread is based upon is a real PIB!

Dave

[ESalter]

I will tell you I'd guess your chances are around 50%.  Of the 150 or so singleslots I've opened and removed(both) locks from, I'd estimate about half of them had the lock bolts torqued down to a point that a hammer drill wouldn't get them to back out.  The other half were loose enough it would probable work.

---Eric

[DavePEI]

I will tell you I'd guess your chances are around 50%.  Of the 150 or so singleslots I've opened and removed(both) locks from, I'd estimate about half of them had the lock bolts torqued down to a point that a hammer drill wouldn't get them to back out.  The other half were loose enough it would probable work.

---Eric

Hi Eric:

I will let you know how it turns out when the new hammer drill arrives. I am saving the second phone to try it on.

Meanwhile, work continues with this one. I am told this method works with 30C locks, but it certainly doesn't with NE22 locks. The difference appears to be the quality of the brass springs within. On the NE22 locks, the brass is spring brass, and quite flexible so that you can't simply flex it to break off the leaves. So from this, we can assume that the process will work on WE 30C locks... The major difference is the quality of brass inside. See photo below of a 30C lock.

Back to the NE QSD100A and QSD2100A Panel Phones....

So what am I going to do? You can't find keys, you can't rattle the lock out using a hammer drill, you can't drill the lock due to its design, and you can't break in from the front of the lock, remove the leaves, so that the tongue of the lock can be slid in.

I have one idea left. Remember I told you on the QSD series that from the lock to the outer edge there are two layers of metal, the steel which holds the lock, and a panel of stainless which applies over it. I have already removed the SS layer to protect it against marking.  Therefore, I can cut in the lower layer without its showing.

Therefore, what I plan to do tomorrow is locate the exact location where the tongue exits the lock and enters the T or L key structure. I will then take my angle grinder, and with a 1//16 inch cutting disk, do a plunge cut through the lower metal structure at this point. This will drop down and cut the tongue of the lock off, which should free up the locking structure above. Then, using the T keys, it can be opened, and the remnants of the NE22QD lock removed from inside.  The only remnant of this operation will be the slit in the underlaying metal which will be covered when I re-install the SS layer.

So unless someone has a better idea (I am really seriously looking for other ideas here, as I am not crazy about having to cut the slot) I will do this tomorrow and let you all know how it works.

I love thee two phones, and am hoping this will be a simple way into them!

Dave

[DavePEI]

Bingo -- Eureka!

Some have been following my thread on the QSD100A and QSD2100A panel payphones. These both use extremely secure locks made so that they cannot be drilled for removal. They also are made to resist opening from the front of the lock and breaking out of the flexible brass leaves which provide the lock action. Finally, as discovered today, the lock mount rather than being bolts which can be turned out on some locks with an impact drill, has heavy metal studs, dampening any vibration you might set up with a hammer drill.

Today, I pulled out the last item in my bag of tricks to get into the phone, and it worked! I am now a completely nervous wreck, but terrifically happy with the results! After searching for panel payphones for so long, I didn't want to damage them in any way. I have two, one dial, and the other the touch tone version of the same phone.

The panel phone is made of heavy gauge steel, with Stainless Steel laminated on top and held on with moldings. To preserve the stainless, I had earlier removed it and its moldings and placed them safely out of harms way.

What did I have left to try? Generally all panel phones have one top lock who's tongue when locked blocks the bars which make up the L or T key locking mechanism. Therefore, both the key to the upper lock, and one or more T key locks are needed to open the top.

Because of the removed Stainless outer layer, it meant I had access to the heavy gauge steel inner cover. By measuring a similar lock carefully, I was able to blindly locate where the tongue of the key lock would enter the L key locking mechanism.

Solution? Cut a narrow slot in the heavy steel cover, and drop that cut through the tongue of the lock, releasing the L key mechanism. This I did using a 4 1/2 angle grinder. along a very carefully located line. I had trouble getting deep enough. I had to change out the first cutting disk I used to a second, brand new disk to gain an extra cm or so of cut. Finally, I broke through that tongue, turned the first L key, and away it went. Next, the second L key - it went too! Yay!

The cover lifted off just perfectly, and I was able to remove the old mangled front NE22QD-7 lock.

So, now this thread had gone to a How DO I OPEN MY PAYPHONE thread, from the older simple clocks on 3 slot phones up until the very latest phones. I though I would share my experiences with you, just in case one of them helps you will one of your phones.

Most payphones have an upper lock in common with others of the same type. This is true of Automatic Electric, Western Electric, Northern Electric, and Gray. Some of the earliest can be easily picked.As time went on, security became more of a concern.

Many early locks can be drilled, i.e.,  a drill can be used down the channel of the keyway, and its size gradually enlarged until you can first get the keyway and pins out, then the lock tongue pulled back to complete the job.

Too good to be true, yes! As locks continued to improve, locks such as Medeco and others that resisted drilling came into use.

Finally upon the advent of single slot phones, the idea of a pin type tumbler went mostly out the door, and new 30C lever type locks came into style. Lock security was taken to the fore-ftont of design consideration. The new locks could not be drilled to open them. The only chance you had was was to open them from the key-way, then one by one remove the leaves until finally, the tongue  could be pulled back.

<ost recently, companies like NE began playing with the alloys making the levers, resulting in a lever which could be bent, but which would bend right back and which resisted breaking by flexing. That is how the NE22QD-7 was made like, leaving virtually no way of lock removal without the correct key.

Until now. It wasn't fun, and many times I was terrified that I would destroy the phone, but now I have the phone opened, a big smile on my face, and a feeling of a job well done. Replacing the SS back over the metal doorway will cover all signs of entry.

So, here are some photos taken after I finished!

In Order:
Photo of bottom section with front dial sections removed...
Photo of top section
Photo of old lock location and secondary lock bars.
My other panel, a QSD2100A next on my list to open.

While I would have far rather had the correct key to fit the lock, or have it be a lock which was easier to get into, I had no choice but keep going. I dreaded cutting blindly, but measured carefully before I made the cut, and it worked out ok. I guess the moral to the story is to keep on going. It would have been better had I seen the inside of one of these phones before - I would have had a better idea of the spacing inside.

The cut will be 100 percent hidden under the SS laminated layer I could even replace the lock if I wanted to, but for now will only cover the round key opening with a square of aluminum duct tape which will match the SS well.

The Centurion style components of the phones will convert easily for use on normal phone lines, and both will be fine looking phones!

Dave

[HarrySmith]

Very cool! Thanks Dave!!

[DavePEI]

Has anyone else got any inventive ideas of how they got into their single slot payphone?

As lock design became more advanced beyond the simpler locks used on 3 slot phones, it became more difficult to get into these.

One of the more popular ideas is to use a hammer drill on the lock to set up a vibration which will result in the screws vibrating out. How many have had luck doing that? I for one, have had no luck using that method at all, however, when my new hammer drill arrives, I am going to use it on the lower lock on the coin door of my other panel phone which arrived with lock and door installed, and can in, I will report on how that works. It may just be the fault of my poor old hammer drill which had very lethargic vibration.

So many people report this working, so I think it has to be a matter of the amount or frequency of vibration given by the drill. If only we could narrow down what types appear to work best, it could be a great help to people in the future. Also, what ype of bit do you use in the drill? I use a 1/2 inch pointed steel bit which came with my air chisel chucked into the drill.  My idea behind using this is it should damage the lock very little, while having a little bit of weight behind it to hopefully enhance its action.
Any idea why this would not be working for me?



This phone uses large dampening nuts on this upper lock which may be enough to prevent this working? That, at least is my theory.:
.

Another idea I have had, but of course not tested, is running liquid nitrogen into the lock, then striking it with a punch to see if it could be shattered without damaging the needed portion of the phone. Who knows what might work, and perhaps you can give us ideas? There need be no guarantees - the main thing is the idea.

Please, for all of our benefit, share your experiences with us! We are best when we share information!

Dave

[DavePEI]

Bingo!

I have the second QSD2100  open and lock removed the same way I got the lock off the first. It gave me some grief as I was slightly off in the location of the cut and had to cut closer to the lock. It is a QSD100 converted to a QSD2100 according to its markings.

As with the other one, it will show no evidence of  the means of entry once the stainless is re-installed.   

My attempts to use the hammer drill on the coin box cover once again failed. I had hoped at least that it would have worked on that lock and its screws. If I can mash up the coin box from behind, I may be able to loosen the screws from the rear. There are two slots in the back that might allow enough access.

Adding to my anticipation of getting into the box, is curiosity - there is the rattle of several coins from inside. Maybe they are the centers out of holey dollars 

I must note: Never use this means until all other means at your disposal have been tried. While on the NE, it has the external layer of SS to cover the cut, on a WE, you don't have that, and you would have to fill the resultant slot cut. It is only because of the external layer of SS on the NE that this becomes an acceptable option.

Photo: From the NE T-9 catalogue showing how the external SS cover is fitted hiding the internal Mild steel panel.

Dave

[DavePEI]

I finished up these two phones today.

The stainless was put back on and both fronts and backs were re-mated. No sign remaining of the work done.

The second phone as mentioned below had its lower lock and coin door as well as a partially loaded coin can. The door/cans used on these are the three slot type as opposed to the taller doors used on most single lots.

While the other one came with its key for the coin door, this can had none. Now, I have heard people say that they simply cut across the coin door and replace it and the lock. At least on these, not necessary.

What I did was cut a clean vertical slit across the top of the coin door just below the bezel of the phone. From there, I started angling the grinder inwards so that by the time it hit the tongue of the lock, it would line up with it. Whether it was just dumb luck, or good planning, by the time I went as far as the 4 1/2 inch cutting blade could, I had trimmed off the tongue just outside of the lock. A pry with a screwdriver removed the door, then I removed the lock.

As it ended up, I can re-use the door, either using a spring to close it, or by put ting a new lock on it. The very minimal damage to the top of the door is very hard to see - - it would only be visible if you were looking for it. Inside the coin box, I discovered about a dollar in change.

So, I am pleased with this adventure. I not only now have two fine looking panel phones, one dial, and the other  TT, but did so at zero cost, other than two cutting wheels for my angle grinder (about #10.00).

Next job cleaning up ,my key-sender received from Don.

Dave 

[poplar1]

Does "-7"  ( in NE22QD-7) indicate the particular key needed for a given region? Does the second 22QD lock  have the same suffix? Are there many different key configurations for the upper locks?

[DavePEI]

Does "-7"  ( in NE22QD-7) indicate the particular key needed for a given region? Does the second 22QD lock  have the same suffix? Are there many different key configurations for the upper locks?

Don Price from New Brunswick tells me they used seven variations of the Centurion top key. NE-22QD through NE222QD-7.  The lock on the first one turned out to be an NE22QD-7, but the second one turned out to be an NE22QD-4. The key I was able to borrow was an NE22QD-3. the QD-3 would fit into the keyway of the other phones, but wouldn't turn far enough to operate.

So, it seems there are at least 7 configurations.

Dave