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My WECo 202 won't Dial Out

Started by Rex_S, February 06, 2016, 04:18:14 PM

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Doug Rose

#30
Quote from: unbeldi on February 06, 2016, 09:47:06 PM
Quote from: Doug Rose on February 06, 2016, 09:10:19 PM
Rex....There is absolutely no reason why your 202 won't work as wired. I have never used a pulse to tone converter, but the way you have it wired it correct. It must be your converter.
The wiring indeed appeared to be correct inside the device.
But this does not mean that it can be connected directly to a telphone line. Under no circumstances will it work.

Quote
Yes...the proper way is to use a subset, but your phone WILL work with a modular cord plugged into your phone outlet. It will dial out and you will have audio transmission and reception, but it will not ring.
No. This is impossible.  The dial isn't even connected to the telephone line if only the red and green wires are matched to the line.  Red and green  connect the receiver only.  The transmitter is between red and yellow, so at a minimum you have to use three wires.

Quote
Your 202 will be working like a Telephone Technician's test set. No coil, no condenser that the subset gives you, along with the gongs to ring. But it most surely will work...just not as designed....Doug
For that, the device has to be rewired in a different manner.   The transmitter, receiver, and dial pulse switch would have to be wired in series.  (Which is by using the green and yellow wires)
Karl....I suggest you buy my phone listed on eBay. It works. I have sold hundreds wired the same way...Doug

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301850446554?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
Kidphone

Rex_S

Thank you for the help.  It's just that when people contradict each other and I don't have the background, I don't know what to do.

Doug, is there a wiring option that will allow the 202 to work and dial out (without a subset)?  It seems I may have missed it.  That is what I initially asked and I seem to have gotten sidetracked on the candle stick and other issues.  I'm glad I know the 202's work after having connected them to my candle stick subset.  But I don't have extra subsets sitting around to make these work.

And Karl, thank you for your knowledge as well.

Phonesrfun

#32
Connecting the phone directly to the phone line without a subset is not the way the phone company designed the phone.  What you are doing then is just connecting the handset receiver and transmitter elements in series across the line.  Your particular phone is wired to be connected to a subset.  You would have to rewire the inside of the phone to get it to transmit and dial out by plugging it directly into a phone line with its current modular plug as wired.

I don't normally connect a phone that way except for testing, because it creates loud pops in the receiver and voice quality is not nearly as good as without.  Given the cost and the size of a subset, the phone company didn't provide them just for the looks.

Electronic parts were a lot bigger back in the 1920's when these were designed.   1925 was 91 years ago.  Almost a hundred years.  Isn't it amazing?  Besides containing a ringer, it contained the induction coil and condenser (now called capacitor) that greatly enhanced the voice quality, boosted the sound that went to the remote end, and made the experience nicer and safer for the user by muting the receiver and keeping DC out of the receiver, which kept loud pops from happening and extended the life of the receiver element.

Subsets were large and bulky and that is why a telephone repairman climbing a pole every day did not lug a subset up the pole with him.  Some linemen did use a common handset when they climbed a pole, and indeed they probably did have the receiver and transmitter in series with no other electronics.  This does work well for testing a line for the most part.  The phone company did have a thing called a lineman's butt-set that was designed for use "up the pole"  It at least used a common resistor in place of the heavier induction coil to achieve some balance and a capacitor to keep DC out of the receiver.  The capacitor was also used in a "listen" mode where a lineman could listen in on the line without the people carrying on a conversation knowing they were being listened to.

Phones of old were not "plug and play" as most things are today.  The 202 phone base is only a stand for the handset to rest on and a series of swtiches in the hook switch and the dial.

Perhaps Doug can provide alternative wiring for the inside of the phone to match how he sells them, but it seems that if you switch the yellow and red line cord wires inside the phone, you will at least put the transmitter in series with the receiver and you would be able to answer a call and talk to the person on the other end.  Voice quality won't be optimal.  In order to dial out, you would then switch the white handset wire from being connected to the W terminal on the dial to connect to the W terminal on the hookswitch.  Unfortunately, this will result in hearing loud pops for every digit you dial every time you dial.

Any way, try this out and see what you think.
-Bill G

AE_Collector

#33
Well said Bill. There is nothing new here in this discussion. Phones that were designed to work with subsets can be "rewired" to work without a subset as Doug is doing. They will work but as indicated there are some downsides to doing this. I suspect that how much of a downside will vary in each instance depending on the specific phone and the type of telephone service you have.

I think that the disagreement here is that the phone is currently wired as though it would have a subset attached which means that connecting the green and red of the cord to dial tone wont work. Wires within the phone need to be reconfigured to make it work as Doug suggests OR it be connected as is to a subset to have it work as Unbeldi suggests. So, they are both correct at the moment.

An option between not using a subset and getting the proper type of subset for your phone is to use a "modern" (small) network that can usually be put in the base of the phone. This is inexpensive and eliminates the need for the separate subset box which some people don't want to have To bother with to make their old phone work. Not original as a collector would probably want it to be but it eliminates all or most of the downside to not using a subset with phones that were designed to use a subset. Mini networks are usually harvested out of AE Styleline handsets.

Terry

unbeldi

Rex, in this topic I once posted a circuit that can be used for testing a candlestick or D1 desk stand:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=10617.msg112976#msg112976

The circuit is very simple to construct and only requires a capacitor and a resistor, both of which can be obtained at RadioShack. The circuit could even be used until you find a suitable subset, because it does NOT require any modification internally to the desk stand or set and it protects the receiver from direct current with the capacitor.

In fact that whole discussion is very relevant to your topic here, and might be educational.