Keys, Keys and more Keys

[MagicMo]

My Dad kept all his works key from IL Bell. What do I do with all these keys? Are any valuable? Ebay?
Thanks,
Mo

[DavePEI]

My Dad kept all his works key from IL Bell. What do I do with all these keys? Are any valuable? Ebay?
Thanks,
Mo

Hi Maureen:

Not all, but some of these are payphone keys. Others may be other work related. Yes, in particular, at one time payphone keys would bring good prices on eBay. Now, recently, eBay has made it difficult to sell keys on eBay, citing national security reasons, and they may no longer take listings for them. This of course is bogus, but they make the rules. No-one is going to steal money from an obsolete payphone! Other places they could be sold are phone shows, etc. Some of the guys who have been following key sales on eBay may be able to fill you in further, but I do know there are instances where eBay recently have refused key listings, yet I have seen others go through. Weird. Ray, others what do you think?

Better yet, and I don't know if this is something you might be interested in doing, keep them together, and take them to phone shows and offer to try to open people's phones for a small fee. I am sure here would be many grateful to you if you would do this! This appears to be a massive set!

Dave

[Greg G.]

Maybe they will unlock a forgotten warehouse full of NOS vintage phones?  The way you are going with you Dad's collection, it wouldn't surprise me!

With that said, I see at least 3 vintage skeleton keys that probably aren't phone related (but I could be wrong) and are most likely collectible. Try here, there's a thread dedicated to keys:  http://www.antique-locks.com/forum.php

[Jim Stettler]

If the payphone keys are smooth on the bottom, then they are a "master" key. these are very versatile.


If they will slide into the payphone lock, then center portion of the key can be ground and you have a master that will work on multiple locks.

Most keys have a little bit of grinding on the backside. These are a lot more limited, because they are ground for a specific lock


I know Paul Valverchak is always interested in payphone keys.
Jim

[rdelius]

The skeleton keys might fit out door telephones and enclosures and fire alarm boxes,energancy sets,possible explosion proof sets also
There are people who use old keys for craft projects I would not toss them

[HarrySmith]

I'll take the round ones, Mo. Maybe I can finally open my payphone!

[Jim Stettler]

There are a limited number of keyways for cabinet locks. .You probably can open up over 95% of the cabinet locks in the US
JMO,
Jim

[G-Man]

Other than keyed-alike upper-housing keys, the telephone companies specifically did not use master keys for payphone coin vaults since it would be calamitous if it were to fall in the wrong hands or if a criminal was able to make one for pilfering payphone coin boxes.

What is interesting is the coaxial cable shown in the lower portion of your photo. It may be of value to a collector of L3 toll paraphernalia.

[Jim Stettler]

Other than keyed-alike upper-housing keys, the telephone companies specifically did not use master keys for payphone coin vaults since it would be calamitous if it were to fall in the wrong hands or if a criminal was able to make one for pilfering payphone coin boxes.

It depends on your definition of a master key. A 3 slot payphone lock is a warded tumbler lock.

The key has 3 main features.
The tip of the key is what disengages the latch. ( the portion after the last cut)

The top cut is the warded portion. The are pieces of metal that block picking of the lock. This cut allows the key to turn  the "wards"

The bottom cut is a tumbler lock. This works a lot like a home doorknob lock, the bottom cut allows the pins to pop up and frees the cylinder for turning.
However, a smooth key on the bottom "cut" also disengages the cylinder.

Because of these features you can take a smooth key, grind off all of the cuts except for the tip insert it into an appropriate* lock and you have a "Master". *{ this would be a lock that the key seats fully into}

the smooth face disengages the cylinder and the tip disengages the latch. Since there is no center the wards don't affect the turning of the key.

I have 51 smooth payphone keys, 50 of them are in a special tray that was designed for easy organized key issuing.

The other came with a 236 payphone (local) that I bought from a local installer, he said all of the installers kept a 3 slot when they switched to SS payphones. the vault doors w/locks and keys were turned in for inventory reasons, then 1 of the guys cut keys for "spare" locks and they  grabbed the doors out of the pile after the locks were removed.

Paul Vaverchak was the one who explained about grinding the center of the keys. a collector at a show told me that the smooth bottom keys were the ones you really wanted for conversion to a "master".


I think the bottom cuts might of been a later security feature and the smooth bottom keys were from the early locks.

Jim

Here is a great link that explains in detail how these locks work. I havn't read it in years
http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/wecolock/

It is written in "locksmith jargon"

BTW Telephone company "payphone picks" are for cleaning the keyway, not for picking the tumblers.

[G-Man]

Jim-

I am a bit confused as to what you are referring to in your description of what constitutes a master key.

I own two ILCO key machines for duplicating telephone company BEST, W.B. and payphone keys and maintain a complete inventory of key blanks as were used by the major incumbent carriers. I have also consulted with telco key gurus Paul Vaverchak and Jody Haralson. I have also toured the massive telco treasury rooms where coins were counted and where the vault keys were stored and assigned for the collection routes.

Simply mentioning the above to illustrate that I do have a smattering of knowledge regarding  payphone locks.

The telephone company only combinated BEST locks for master* keys, however the telephone companies did not create master keys for payphone vaults.

They regarded their security sacrosanct and readily implemented high security coin box locks that were developed by George Long who both founded the Long Security Lock Co. and became the president of the Gray Paystation Company.

His lock, as you alluded to, not only had keys with an upper bittiing for the upper warded portion, it was also combined with three lower bittings for a pin-tumbler mechanism making them extremely difficult to defeat without the proper key. 

In fact I suspect that the combination of both warded and pin-tumbler construction would make it very difficult if not impossible to create a master key system.

However from your description I am not sure whether you are describing a true master keying system or an unauthorized method of opening coin vaults so I may be incorrect in my assumptions.

Also, not to dwell on semantics, I have never heard of a Western Electric 528A lock Cleanout Tool referred to as a "pick" in telephone company parlance.


*And its other related iterations such as grand master, great-grandmaster keys.

[Dan/Panther]

Mo;

Just curious, did your Dad leave any specific details about distribution of his collection, or was that left open ? If mentioned before, sorry, I didn't see it.
D/P

[MagicMo]

Mo;

Just curious, did your Dad leave any specific details about distribution of his collection, or was that left open ? If mentioned before, sorry, I didn't see it.
D/P

No, it was not talked about, I don't think he knew (remembered) everything he had. His collection was boxed up in the attic for years and forgotten. The only thing I knew about was the Picturephone. The keys were all over the house, I just have been organizing and putting related stuff together.
Mo