What's worth more, 4 line 440 or 3 line 410 w/ hold?

[WesternElectricBen]

As the title says, I am working on a 302 (440) project. Because I do not have all of the parts I decided I would like to make 1 set out of the two. Yes, it won't be dates matching, but the fact is, it would be a lot of work between finding a nice handset, new cords, and a new body for one of the phones.

So, by value perspective, what is more uncommon the one w/ a hold or w/out (4 line black keys.) And from practical perspective, the one with hold could be used on a switching system but the one w/ out would be much easier to setup.

Pic 1.) shows both phones
Pic 2.) shows the inside of both phones
Pic 3.) shows the 4 line set
Pic 4.) shows the 3 line set w/ hold.

Thanks,
Ben

[WesternElectricBen]

I'm sorry, I ment 440.

Ben

[paul-f]

Ben,

Are you taking a poll of the forum members?  In the end, the only question that matters is which is worth more TO YOU.

In my opinion, they're close enough in value that it's not worth worrying about which is more valuable.

When faced with either/or questions like which to restore, my usual answer is both -- but in which order?

In this case, I'd work on the more complete set first and put it on display.  In the meantime, I'd start looking for the parts for the second set.

Not having the parts wouldn't stop me from tidying up the parts I have and putting them on display.  I would proudly display the one with the button in the side, as it was obviously put there for a purpose. 

I also wouldn't mind if there were cracks, chips or burns, as they are natural consequences of use.  Over the years, I have had many damaged phones on display.  Some have been gradually upgraded.

In fact, I have a similar set in my project box now.  It's a 440GA3 with a somewhat unusual 561G key.  It has the cutoff feature -- a turn button in the rightmost key position.  I got it from someone who saw the broken housing and gutted it -- no dial, handset, ringer or feet.  The housing has two large chips missing on the right side (front and rear), several large cracks and the housing has shrunk enough that all 4 buttons are immobalized.

Some projects just take longer than others.

[poplar1]

440AA manual   PPPP 561A Key  D10B Cord
440AB 5HA dial  PPPP 561A Key  D10B Cord
440AC 5HB dial  PPPP 561A Key D10B Cord
444AA manual   PPPP 561A Key  D16B Cord
444AC 5HB dial  PPPP 561A Key   D16B Cord

For 1A Key:
440EA manual   HPPP 561E Key  D14A Cord
440EB 5HA dial  HPPP 561E Key  D14A Cord
440EC 5HB dial  HPPP 561E Key  D14A Cord
444EA manual   HPPP  561E Key D18C Cord
444EC 5HB dial  HPPP 561E Key  D18C Cord

(H=Hold P=Pickup)
Section C53.152, Issue 5, 5-28-48

440 has non-illuminated key buttons
444 has illuminated key buttons

There is a later series of sets that can be used with 1A or 1A1/1A2. The holding key is wired differently, and the hookswitch has 6 contacts.

[WesternElectricBen]

Thanks guys,


Of course your right, Paul, sense the value isn't much different, I will most likely make a 3 line set with hold in which I can hopefully hook up to my 1a2 KSU.


And you are right, it wouldn't be that bad to find the right parts to build another, but at the time being I'm okay with building one. And when the time comes, I will find a similar set to refurbish or buy parts to build another.


Pretty soon I will get onto this project, after I finish the mushroom, 10 button, and reorganizing the shop, (which are mostly complete.)


Ben   

[Babybearjs]

pay attention to your model numbers..... the 410 is a 2 line phone! you are talking about the 440 and the 444. in my opinion they are both worth a lot... the 444 is probably more popular as it can be used on a 1A1 as well as a 1A2 system, rotary of course... I have both phones and the 444 is used in the house whereas the 440 gets used as a test phone. I have the 444, 464, and the 564 in use in my home. so, its hard to say which one would be worth more.... 

[WesternElectricBen]

Sorry, but I did correct myself a post or two ago.

Thanks for your oppinion, first I think I'm going to make a 3 line.

Ben

[Babybearjs]

the 444EC are the best phones for home use... I'm in the process of rewiring my entire KTS. the 444's I have have 2 land lines and the intercom system. It makes for a simple system. I just ordered another W.E. 212 KTU from cliff in AZ. hopefully, once I get this whole thing put back together, it will really work well.... Good luck with your phones. I really love the WE 400 series... they are sooo art deco!

[poplar1]

...you are talking about the 440 and the 444.... the 444 is probably more popular as it can be used on a 1A1 as well as a 1A2 system...

The last number (0 or 4) refers only to non-illuminated or illuminated key buttons. Not all 444s will work with 1A1 or 1A2 without rewiring the holding key and either adding additional hookswitch contacts (for A/A1) or robbing the green/brown-blue contacts.

The 444EC as furnished will not work on 1A1 or 1A2.

[poplar1]

Ben, can you tell us the complete model number and date stamped on the bottom of each phone? Also, does either hookswitch have 6 contacts?

[WesternElectricBen]

Of course,


The model number for the one with 3 lines + hold is:  E/G 440E. And it appears to have 6 wires coming from the hookswitch. Although, I do not see button lights, but I might need to look harder, rather than my quick glance.


Ben

[poplar1]

The last digit (0) means without lamps.

[WesternElectricBen]

Ah,


So, I will be able to make this work with my 1a2 b/c it has the extra switchook leads, am I correct?


Secondly, what would it take to add lamps, or would it make more sense to buy one which already has lamps?


Ben

[poplar1]

Yes, it can be used for 1A1,1A2. The lamp holder and lamps can probably be found in a broken set.

"E/G 440E" means it can be either a 440EE (non-dial) or 440EG (dial)--just as "C/D 500" refers to either a 500C (manual) or 500D (dial).


               When the second letter of the
               set code suffix is either E or G,
               the set can be used with either
               1A or 1A1 [or 1A2].

               When the second letter of the
               set code suffix is either A or C,
               the set can be used with 1A
               only.

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/2805-502-435-100-i1-telephone-sets-440-460-tl

[paul-f]

David,

I love it when you talk BSP.