Rotary Phones and VOIP, Some Light at the end of the Tunnel

[therealtomlapp]

Hello, I am new to this forum and joined because I wanted to share this really neat project I have been involved with.  A little about myself, I am a software designer with roughly 30 years of experience, am very much into technology, but at the same time I have a huge taste for anything vintage.  My entire house is literally from the 70s from the televisions, phones, appliances, etc.  To save money I dropped the regular phone company and went to voice over IP.  I was shortly disappointed when I found out that I was unable to dial out using my rotary phone.  For months I threw around the idea of wiring up one of those dialgizmos, but I just couldn't do it.  For me I like to pay very close attention to detail, and with the rotary to pulse converters you can hear the DTMF tones as you dial, and that kind of makes things seem a little fake.  For me I want a legitimate pulse dial, at the same time I also want cheap phone service.

Rotary phones and ATA devices.
Analog telephone adapters are the devices that voice over ip companies use to connect their networks to your physical phone.  Most of these devices no longer support rotary dialing, and even some of them don't have enough juice to make our old phones ring properly.  In doing research I found that many people go to the Grandstream HT502, which is widely known to support rotary dialing.  Then it came down to me finding a voice over ip company that will work with my device.  Of course there was also the issue of price.  My old phones don't really get used that much, they are more for show and for guests to play with when they come over.  The last service I had was basic talk for $12.95 a month.  I personally didn't really like paying $13 a month for something I really don't use that much.  So I decided to bring in my computer programmer side and see what I could put together.

Power your vintage phones (even rotary) with Twilio.
There is a great service on the net called Twilio.  Twilio is a voice over IP company that is specifically for software designers.  They have numbers in just about every part of the world, and a large array of features.  Twilio is NOT a phone service that will just work out of the box, you have to "program" it.  Basically when I installed my telephone device and my phones, I then had to write software to program Twilio on how I wanted my calls handled.  This means that, as a programmer not only can I make my home phone system work, I can actually add custom features of my own at no additional cost.  On top of that, I am not paying $13 a month.  Instead I just have to pay a very small fee for the phone number ($1 per month) and for any usage which is billed per minute (just over 1 penny per minute).  That is all I pay.  The Grandstream ATA gives me everything I need to make this system work, including a very strong ring, and rotary dialing.

Remember the old Centrex business phone systems?
Seeing how I am now able to add my own special features to my phone system, it made me think back from when I was a kid and my school had one of those "Centrex" business phone systems.  These typically used standard Western electric desktop phones and had extensions as well as basic business related calling features.  Centrex is a system that operates directly from the phone company.  So instead of having a "server" in your building that ties all of your phones together, every phone extension runs directly to the phone central office and all of the calling features are handled on the phone company's end.  So I decided I wanted a Centrex system in my house, and so far it's working out pretty well.

My own custom home phone system
In my home I started out with a Western Electric push button desktop phone in my living room and a rotary wall phone in the kitchen.  I set my living room phone to extension 101 and the kitchen to extension 102.  Of course for this to work, each phone is connected to it's own port on the Grandstream ATA.  Each Grandstream HT502 has two individual phone ports.  These ports are in reality their own separate phone lines.  Now all of my phones are on one phone number.  This means if you call my home, all of the phones will ring at the same time.  Of course if I choose I can add code to check incoming caller id and specifically route calls to specific extensions if I choose.  When an incoming call is received, that call is connected to that specific extension only.  That means if I am using one phone, you can pick up another phone and place an outgoing call simultaneously.  This also means I can do things like transfer a call to another extension, put callers on hold, etc.  Eventually I am going to add two more extensions, which means I will need to purchase another HT502 (two more ports). 

It works with vintage answering machines!
Yes I do have one of these.  An old answering machine with the old endless loop tape for the outgoing messages.  It's fully functional, but these old answering machines have trouble with voice over IP.  When I used it with Basictalk it had trouble determining when the caller actually hung up. So every message was followed by a fast busy signal that would last for quite a while.  The reason these old machines don't work well with voice over ip is because the method of notifying a device the call has hung up has changed.  Back in the old days when someone hung up the phone company did what is called a "loop current disconnect", meaning for just under a second the voltage on the line would drop to 0.  The answering machine would detect this voltage drop and interpret it as a hang up.  I was very happy to learn that the Grandstream ht502 has this feature that can be enabled very easily.  When I experienced my first hangup I actually felt like a kid when I heard that loud and obnoxious "click" as the line dropped.  My vintage answering machine has no issues operating on my line at this point. 

Like the old Centrex system, but better
When I was a kid the only person I knew who had a cool intercom system in his house was my rich friend, back then you had to spend an arm and a leg to get one.  I was always fascinated with how they could make room to room calls and have so many cool features.  So naturally as a programmer I have built this type of system in my home.  The only thing I did not like about the older systems was the need to dial 9 to get an outside line.  This was because they didn't program the system to intelligently know if you were trying to dial out or trying to dial an extension or feature code.  As a programmer this was very simple for me to do.  Also I was able to use the same technique to make sure I could enjoy seven digit dialing as well.  Basically when a number is dialed, my code analyzes the number and figures out what to do on the fly.  So if you were to dial a 7 digit number (xxx-xxxx), ten digit (xxx-xxx-xxxx) or eleven digit (1-xxx-xxx-xxxx), the system automatically figures out that you are dialing an outside number.  If you dial let's say 101, or 105, etc, the system knows you are dialing an extension.  No need to dial 9 or know anything special to be able to operate the phone system.

Custom number dial cards
Once again this comes down to my attention to detail.  I just have to have my actual phone number displayed on the phones.  So I dug up some old dial cards (the rectangle ones from the 2550's and the round ones for rotary).  I used my graphic design skills to create new ones that look exactly like the ones from back when, instead these bear both the phone number and extension number on them. 

Some of the features I am currently working on:
1. Automatic incoming call redirection based on time of day.  For instance, someone decides to call at 3am, bedroom phones won't ring.
2. Do not disturb (pretty self explanatory, this would be based on individual extensions)
3. Call transfer (either extension to extension, or from an extension to an outside number).
4. 911 dialing (yes, believe it or not I have to actually program this, Twilio only hands you the very basic infrastructure, the rest is up to you.
5. Feature menu by pressing 0.  Of course I can't afford to handle a full time operator, so instead if someone dials 0 they will get a menu list of different features they can take advantage of.
6. Vintage phone intercept messages - I am currently in the process of compiling audio files of the older intercept messages, the ones that started out with that loud three sets of tones and said "we're sorry, your call cannot be completed as dialed".  I am going to put these into the software and set them up to be used as needed.

So here is what I am thinking of doing as a side project.  I can see that there are a number of people online who are frustrated trying to get their rotary phones to work with voice over ip.  Many times people have to settle for less, or rewire their phones with pulse to tone converters.  I am highly considering launching this project as a little side business.  Basically I would offer voice over ip service that is specifically catered to the old phone collector.  Heck, even if you have your own business and you decide you want to take your business old school, why not set up a mock "Centrex" system.  Imagine the looks on a new employees face when he sees this thing actually works!  With Twilio's pricing I could offer people very affordable and reasonable service, and you would only have to pay for your usage.  Remember the old days when a phone line was dirt cheap?  You can see those days again.  Of course long distance will still be free, as Twilio does not charge for nationwide long distance.  Also, the great thing about Twilio is you do not pay for your extensions.  This means that if you actually decided to set up 50 individual extensions in your home or business, you only pay for the actual usage, not per line.  Moving forward I still need to experiment in my own home, and create a rock solid platform to run these things on.  After that all I would have to do is purchase Grandstream ht502's and preprogram them and ship them to whoever wants service (or you could always purchase your own and program it yourself). 

I would like any input or thoughts on this?  How many people would possibly be interested in something like this?  I would LOVE suggestions, anything I might have missed.

[mentalstampede]

It's a niche market, but there is potential there in my opinion. Coming up with a "turn-key" VoIP solution for old phones would certainly appeal to quite a few people.

[Owain]

Instead I just have to pay a very small fee for the phone number ($1 per month) and for any usage which is billed per minute (just over 1 penny per minute).  That is all I pay.  The Grandstream ATA gives me everything I need to make this system work, including a very strong ring, and rotary dialing.

Basically I would offer voice over ip service that is specifically catered to the old phone collector.  Heck, even if you have your own business and you decide you want to take your business old school, why not set up a mock "Centrex" system. 

I think you're in danger of reinventing the penny-farthing, if this is a genuine proposal.

I use Sipgate for VoIP numbers and they cost nothing per month and 1.2p/minute for most calls. There are lots of VoIP providers out there charging variable rates.

If people want to run their own systems then Asterisk (on a Raspberry Pi or a hacked router, as well as various PC platforms) is well-established and as close to rock-solid as you'll get with free software. Asterisk has more features and customisability than you're even thinking of right now.

As for vintage telephone collectors, there's C*Net
https://www.ckts.info/

[Greg G.]

Remember the old days when a phone line was dirt cheap?

Yes, the pre-divesture glory days of the Bell System when the funds for phone rentals were used to subsidize the rates.

I would like any input or thoughts on this?  How many people would possibly be interested in something like this?  I would LOVE suggestions, anything I might have missed.

I will say that most of the time when I run into technical stuff like this my eyes glaze over, but your writing style made it mostly understandable and easy to read. 

My problem with VOIP service is that the phone service drops whenever there is no power or no internet connection.  I like the idea of dirt-cheap phone service (our CenturyLink bill is $70 a month), but will stick with old-fashioned land-line service as long as it's still available and reliable.  Our household has relatives in Canada who we need to keep in touch with, and urgent matters are always handled by phone. Doesn't sound like what your doing supports that.  Even if I wanted to switch to Voip, I would have to convince my wife to go along.  We resisted Comcast's nagging for as long as we could and just bought a new modem, and buying a phone modem isn't something either one of us would want to do at this point.  Add to all that is the fact that we're in our 60s and both "plug and play" types who get stressed out to the max if we have to deal with a lot of configurations and settings.

P.S. Welcome to the board!

[therealtomlapp]

This is definitely not a serious business idea or anything, more of a fun hobby to tinker with on my free time.  If a couple people get interested and I make a few bucks back it would be cool, but I'm not too worried about it. I initially did this because I just hated not being able to use my rotary phone, and even though basic talk was only $13 a month I didn't really see a reason to pay that much for something I barely use.  Although I will probably use it more now since I am going to expand my system to have extensions in every room.  I'm also setting up an automatic "find me" feature that forwards my calls to my cell phone if it's gps shows i'm anywhere else but at home. 

[andy1702]

It sounds like an interesting idea, and I'm all for it in principal. But if you get a Grandstream 502 can't you just connect it to pretty much any VOIP service you like? C*Net was set up to connect our old phone networks together via ATAs and I use that a lot. It doesn't give access out onto the PSTN though, so I have a PSTN line as well. Both lines feed into a BT Revelation PABX (which can understand pulse or tone and outputs everything in tones) which in turn connects to up to 16 extensions around the house. From any phone I can dial the extension of any other phone, or I can dial out on C*Net by first dialling 72 or out onto a PSTN line by dialling 9. I think that's the way to go rather than having 8 ATA's all flickering away.

Also I don't hear any tones through the PABX.

Using your system it sounds like dialling from one extension to another actually sends a call out to you VOIP provider and then back to you on a different line. Do they charge you for that as a call?

It's an interesting idea and I wish you well.

Andy.

[Fabius]

And as been mentioned many times on the forum you can use your rotary telephone connected to a Panasonic 616 Easa-Phone KSU (KX-T61610). I use MagicJack VOIP as the CO lines. I even have my CNET line as a CO line into the system. MagicJack at $35 a year is a bargain and you can pick the area code you want on your number and even a limited choice of exchanges in that area code.

[therealtomlapp]

It sounds like an interesting idea, and I'm all for it in principal. But if you get a Grandstream 502 can't you just connect it to pretty much any VOIP service you like? C*Net was set up to connect our old phone networks together via ATAs and I use that a lot. It doesn't give access out onto the PSTN though, so I have a PSTN line as well. Both lines feed into a BT Revelation PABX (which can understand pulse or tone and outputs everything in tones) which in turn connects to up to 16 extensions around the house. From any phone I can dial the extension of any other phone, or I can dial out on C*Net by first dialling 72 or out onto a PSTN line by dialling 9. I think that's the way to go rather than having 8 ATA's all flickering away.

Also I don't hear any tones through the PABX.

Using your system it sounds like dialling from one extension to another actually sends a call out to you VOIP provider and then back to you on a different line. Do they charge you for that as a call?

It's an interesting idea and I wish you well.

Andy.

Yeah I could attach it to any voip provider since it is a fully unlocked ata.  I just like the ability to build my own custom phone system using code.  You are correct on intercom calls, it is technically a call out to Twilio then back to the receiving extension.  Basically since they are both considered IP phones the pricing is lower, so intercom calls cost me $0.008 (8 tenths of a cent) per minute.  Based on how much usage I currently have I figure my bill may end up being $2-$4 a month.  So basically I have a PBX system that is centralized with the phone company instead of on site.  I am setting up a similar system for a transportation company that will tie into their dispatch computers and automatically route calls based on who is calling along with ACD queuing.  Of course they will be using brand new IP phones, but doing that got me interested in putting this same type of technology behind vintage hardware.  Many of the ideas I have are kind of off the wall and very unconventional, like gps based call routing or a feature that prevents small children from accidentally dialing out by automatically locking extensions where a lot of dialing errors take place within a short period of time.  The extension could simply be unlocked by a pin code if a phone accidentally falls into a small child's hands.  Oh and my favorite feature is Twilio's tool that allows me to scan incoming phone numbers on the fly and get reputation information that can be used to automatically filter out telemarketing, sales and scam calls.  These calls can automatically be rejected without my phone even ringing at all, and Twilio does not bill you when you reject a call.  I know that this feature will be great for my company seeing despite being on the do not call list we get hammered with all kinds of sales and scam calls.

[markosjal]

Personally, I use Google Voice with ANY ATA, including ATAs that support rotary dialing. If you want a PBX experience I think pbxes.com works for that a free account allows 2 simultaneous calls.