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Kellogg Redbar not getting dial tone to Receiver

Started by Nick in Manitou, May 15, 2018, 03:48:06 PM

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dsk

Nice to hear  :D   The 113A is for regular CB!
I guess moving the plugs made better contact, and it could probably be repeated some times.

That may also be with the strap in the 4 hole jack for rotary dial plug.

Moving the 3 position link may give better or worse sound depending on the line loop length or voltage.

Could be nice to hear about the further development.

dsk

Nick in Manitou

I have tried moving the link between the two positions to change the capacitance but do not detect any change in the volume of the dial tone.

It is loud enough to work with, but not as loud as some.

I have not had a chance to try another handset or receiver on it yet. I will let you know if it makes a difference.

Nick

rdelius

You might pull the bakelite chassis  out of the telephone and look underneith for bad solder joints..Also look for soldered jumper wires . Those are indications of a chasssis for an intercom set

poplar1

#18
Quote from: Nick in Manitou on May 17, 2018, 12:31:05 AM
I have tried moving the link between the two positions to change the capacitance but do not detect any change in the volume of the dial tone.

It is loud enough to work with, but not as loud as some.

I have not had a chance to try another handset or receiver on it yet. I will let you know if it makes a difference.

Nick

Are you talking about Link #2?
Link 1 (L2 - GRD) and Link 3 (5 - 3 - 4)  are for the ringer.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Nick in Manitou

Poplar1,
Yes, I was moving the incorrect link. DSK had suggested moving the 3 position link, and I immediately converted that in my head to Link-3.  I will see if changing the position of Link-2 makes a difference. (I did try another handset and there was no noticeable change in the dial tone.

I just now tried the various positions for Link-2 and, again, heard no noticeable difference in the volume of the dial tone.

Rdelius,
I took the bakelite wiring chassis out and looked underneath and nothing looked out of order. It looked to me (without much to go on) as though it was factory fresh. I have attached a photo, but the reflections might make it hard to see well. I could try setting up different lighting and taking a photo with no flash if you think that would assist.

Is it possible that the fact that Link-2 being moved to each of the three possible positions with no noticeable change in dial tone volume tells us that there is something else wrong?

Thanks to all for your suggestions, knowledge and patience!

Nick

 

Nick in Manitou

Well, with the information I have gathered so far in this forum thread, I went ahead and tested several of the Masterphone 1000 series that I received when I purchased the large lot of phone recently. (I have probably gone through fewer than half so far...!)

It seems that all of those on which I can get a dial tone to come up, it is about the same volume as it has been on the phone discussed previously. So, until informed otherwise, I will assume that tells me that that volume is what is to be expected. (I should mention that as a result of too much playing in a rock band, I wear hearing aids and perhaps they just don't like the Kellogg receiver output.)

In going through some of the Masterphones on the shelf, I came across a couple that puzzle me...One has a clear hook switch bar instead of the expected red one, and one has a turn lever on the left right side that says "Press to Talk or Dial". I don't know what differences to look for on the unit with the clear hook switch bar and I have not yet found a description of, model number for or schematic for the example with the Press to Talk or Dial lever. I have looked through a couple Kellogg publications but have not found anything yet.

Photos of both of the above are available if they would help.

Thanks,
Nick

Payphone installer

I have a lot of parts for these phones,I just found a whole case of the plug in modules. Push to talk was used in noisey locations. I just found push to talk wall housing in Kellogg. I have found several of these phones in color in the past each one had a clear bar. These sets in color do the same thing the Norths do which is turm a shiney slate color over time. The green and the blue fade to slate black. All you have to do is restore the color by buffing. You can tell if it's a colored set by looking inside.

poplar1

Quote from: Nick in Manitou on May 20, 2018, 06:26:29 PM


one has a turn lever on the left right side that says "Press to Talk or Dial".

This was used on party lines. You could first listen to make sure no one was dialing or talking, and that there was no incoming ring. (Ringing for a different party would not activate ringers tuned to a different frequency.)
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Nick in Manitou

Payphone Installer,
At some point in the future I might see if you want to offload any of the 113A coils for these phones so that I might be able to sell off a couple of the Redbars as working phones (they don't seem to want to work with the 114A coils).

Also, have you ever seen a black "Redbar" with a clear hook switch bar? Perhaps it was just put in during a refurb, but it seems surprising that with so few colored units out there that a clear bar would end up in a black phone just by chance.


Poplar1,
Do you know where one might find a schematic for Masterphones with the Press to Talk or Dial lever?
I have not found a schematic with that or the press to talk button that is on a few of the phones I have here.

Nick

dsk

Quote from: Nick in Manitou on May 20, 2018, 06:26:29 PM
(I should mention that as a result of too much playing in a rock band, I wear hearing aids and perhaps they just don't like the Kellogg receiver output.)

I guess you are right, these are pretty well covered, and the electromagnetic fields are not great.  I guess you have to put in a more modern receiver, and that will be a little tricky with those contacts.

dsk

tubaman

Have you tried turning the receiver diaphragm the other way up - it can make a difference.
Also just loosening the cap a tiny bit can help.
:)

poplar1

Quote from: Nick in Manitou on May 21, 2018, 05:43:07 PM

Poplar1,
Do you know where one might find a schematic for Masterphones with the Press to Talk or Dial lever?
I have not found a schematic with that or the press to talk button that is on a few of the phones I have here.


I haven't been able to locate anything on this. Stromberg-Carlson  included this feature available on every
1243 as an option (bend a tab and rewire the hookswitch), with instructions included on the paper included inside the phone.

There is a booklet in the TCI library that includes troubleshooting of the 1000 model (aka redbar). Interesting, but no mention of the push to talk or dial feature.

In theory, the idea is that when going off-hook, the transmitter is disconnected until the button is pressed. But the secondary circuit including the receiver and capacitor are  connected.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

poplar1

#27
There is a 1948 booklet entitled "Kellogg Masterphone Catalog 1000 Series." Page 18 [19th page of the file] shows diagram # 21258 (Figure 1) for the D1000 and the supplemental diagram # 21266 (lower left) for the D1001 (common battery set with "push to talk" lever).

Remove the metal link #2  and replace it with the 2 wires (black and white) from the push to talk switch.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Nick in Manitou

Poplar1,

Thanks for the link! I had found Kellogg docs from '47 and '49 but had not come across that 1948 publication that covers what I was looking for.

Should I assume that the Press to Talk doorbell-looking button is wired the same as the Press to Talk lever?

Thanks,
Nick

poplar1

I don't think they are the same. Isn't the round button momentary? The push to talk or dial closes 2 contacts for the rest of the call.

I've seen the round buttons only on Selectophones, though perhaps there were other uses. The Kellogg 1000 (redbar) and the AE 34 are about the only 2 models that we never refurbished when I worked at Hallmark House. Boss didn't like the Kelloggs so I've never worked on them much.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.