Box o' Phones From a Movie Prop Sale

[Systemagic]

I just got in from buying a box of 5 phones from a movie prop rental place.  The movie industry has gone a little soft (again) here in Vancouver, BC. and so the prop houses are liquidating much of their goods.

I haven't even cleaned them up yet and probably won't find time for additional interior photos for a couple of days.

I paid $150 (so $30 each) for them.  I'm guessing most are about 1940's vintage. Three are British and one is Dutch with the least valuable being a black-and-white GTE AE rotary wall phone with a blurred black-on-black date - but I think it reads 1980.  If anyone can add any additional colour to the background of this, least interesting, phone I'd appreciated it.

The one that I find most attractive is the copper Dutch phone with a brass carrying handle.  Unfortunately it's also in the worst condition.

The handset and line cords are totally missing and the dial return spring isn't working. I hope that the handset is an accurate match. I don't know if it's even compatible with Canadian lines, or if finding a return spring is remotely possible but I'd love to get this one working. As far as I can tell both hanset and line cords feed into th same area.

There's one, all polished up,  currently available on eBay for $135.  It has a different handset but it's completely severed just like mine!?!

Can anyone help me with this?

I'll either post the 3 UK phones in a different thread or later, here, when any dialogue on these two phones appears mostly complete.

Thanks.

[AE_Collector]

AE 192 Starlite wall phone. Made through the 70's and 80's.

The antiques / movie prop place in Lake City (Vancouver) used to have a big box full of those copper phones. Most were missing some pieces, particularly the dials if I remember correctly.

Terry

[Systemagic]

Thanks, Terry.

   We live pretty close to the Lake City prop house.  Maybe I could even find the appropriate handset.  I learned today, from a different downtown prop house, that the Lake City owner's name is Pete.  Nothing is cheap at that warehouse though.

   Judging from the following web site I have the wrong one:
http://www.deco-world.com/100_copper_phone_222.htm

   Evidently it could be Belgian and not Dutch like my seller said.  Also, the brass plating on the dial is so worn on mine that I thought is was chrome.

   

[Systemagic]

BTW I just this minute sold my oval Dawn/Pancake phone, previously discussed in this category, for $90.  I thought I had overpaid at $45.

(Sold that Radio Shack Scandinavian thing too - $65 (Buyer stiffed me for a $20 bill on the agreed upon $85 price)

The Vancouver Lower Mainland phone market seems to be getting stronger and stronger.

[AE_Collector]

I am amazed that you got that kind of money for a NE Dawn!
Terry

[teka-bb]

Evidently it could be Belgian and not Dutch like my seller said.  Also, the brass plating on the dial is so worn on mine that I thought is was chrome.

The copper phone is Belgian and both ATEA and BTMC of Antwerp (http://strowger-net.telefoonmuseum.com/tel_hist_antwerp.html) made these phones for RTT (Belgian PTT). This one is called the 'Poste National' which dates from 1956 and is also known as U56. The model itself is much older and dates back to the late 1930s.

[teka-bb]

The handset is correct:



source:
http://www.kulentuur.be/ateamuseum/telefoon_zamac/

[teka-bb]

I forgot to mention that I can provide parts if needed.

[Systemagic]

  Thanks, so much, Remco.  That's very helpful.

  I wonder if the previous owner's misidentification of the Dutch origin was due to misinterpretation of the same Dutch language museum documentation?

  I, almost certainly, will take you up on your spare parts offer, if your prices are reasonable.  First, however, I'm considering going to visit the other props guy who may sitll have a box of these derelict phones and taking an inventory of potentially repairable units for resale.  If the price is right I could have a larger volume order for you.  I wish I had a successful resale price though.  Someone on eBay is asking $350 but asking, and getting are two diffierent things.

  The trouble is that I'm a layman with a steep learning curve but if I procure a lot of them I may become the resident expert in this particular model.  I don't even know, yet, how to get inside the dial to replace a broken spring.  I hope that no special expensive tools are involved.

  I've also been gathering that, in order to make European phones work over here, a ringer capacitor is required.  I wonder what the best way to apply them would be that would make for easy conversion back to original condition if it's ever required?

[twocvbloke]

I don't know about continental phones, but the GPO phones should already have capacitors in them for ringing, and only require that the US/Canadian Tip & Ring wires are connected to the A & B terminals, assuming the phones haven't been converted for PSTN wiring (our version of Modular connectors), though even then you can de-convert them back to the old style wiring if they're of the right age to still have the capacitors factory fitted... 

Though it would help to see what the other three phones are before anything is certain on how to wire it all up...

[Russ Kirk]

I forgot to mention that I can provide parts if needed.

Hi Remco,

I have same same phone. I need the little label/emblem part for the front - mine is missing.   

[Systemagic]

   I've been in touch with the movie prop guy who sold me the box o' phones as well as the other movie prop guy with the box o' copper U56 phones.

  Unfortunately the guy with the copper phones was forced to downsize because of the economy and the box of copper, and other continental, phones went to the landfill.  

  The guy who sold me the phones said that he personally purchased the copper phone, as well as the next phone that I'm about to post, in Holland.  So that accounts for his belief that it was of Dutch origin.

 So here's the next one:

 An Ericsson type 1951 PTT White Bakelite table or desk phone.  The bottom is stamped "Nov 1963".  The prop guy kept on calling it "Ivory" but they made them in both Ivory and White colors and this one looks white to me.  He said that it was a lot more rare than the black ones.

 The wires look to me like they went into a European 4-prong connector wherein, I'm guessing, another ringer capacitor was housed.  If anyone knows how to get this going on our phone lines please let me know.

 The other 2 phones that I have are both likely Ericssons as well but, at least for me, are proving much harder to identify.  I'll post those shortly.
 

[twocvbloke]

There's already a ringing capacitor inside the phone...

(I think you may be confusing modern BT standards (possibly other countries too) with original standards, with the capacitor being in the socket and not the phone)

Looking at the British Telephones' website, to connect it up, first find out which wires of the line cord go where (I can't read swedish, see the diagram below), and in US wire colours, it's Green to Terminal 9, and Red to Terminals 10 and 11, and that should get it to work...

[Systemagic]

Thanks, Bloke.

Turns out the schematic is in Dutch, not Swedish. "PTT" stands for Post, Telefoon en Telegraaf; the Dutch state owned post and telecommunication operator.  Also I translated "Aardsysteem" (because I'm not afraid of a little aard vark) and it translates to "Earth System" which I believe is the little button toward the top.  This, I read, wasn't seen in the U.S. and is an ancestor of the Flash button. (I'm hoping it'll work like the "Easy" button in Staples commercials)

The top headline, "Extra Wekker", translates to "Additional Alarm".  Don't know if I need that at this time.  I'm alarmed enough by this but darned if this headine doesn't add what it promises.

  "Tweelingsakeling toestel", the center headline, means "Twin Circuit Device"  Not encouraging either. 

  I've opened up the phone and, as it's currently wired, the green, red, blue and yellow wires go to the 13, 11, 10 and 9 terminals respectively.

  I'm unclear.  Are you suggesting that I apply the North Amercian red and green line wires to this Dutch phone's 9, 10, and 11 terminals?  I'm also confused by the dual use of the red wire?  Do you mean that I should use a jumper or that red wire can go to terminal 10 or 11?

I feel that need a bit more clarity before I procede.

[twocvbloke]

The wiring is easy, with those colours you provided, you connect the 10 and 11 (Blue & Red) together, that's your US-Red wire, the Green (13) Earth or Ground wire you don't need so just ignore that one, and the Yellow is your US-Green wire, that's it...

You can use one of those Hardwired-to-Modular converter adaptor plugs too if you so wished, even WE500s had wiring in a similar fashion to that, all it is really is a difference in wire colours...

One thing you might possibly have to do is add a 3.3K Ohm resistor between the capacitor and the bell to up it's resistance, otherwise it may not ring or may stop other phones on your line from ringing...