Question of Morality re: making offers on current ebaY auctions

[Doug Rose]

I would and HAVE given the yard sale seller exactly what they have asked for their item, maybe a little less;  knowing full well it is worth more. That is why I go to yard sales. Most Antique stores and sellers on eBay get their"antiques" this way.  This is how I get the phones in my collection and phones I sell.

I was trying to address the issue of fair and foul. What I deemed as incorrect assignment of tags to sellers and buyers on eBay. There is no unfair, it is the way it is. Supply and demand. Sellers sell, buyers buy.

If a seller wants to sell "their" item, who are "we" to tell them how to do it. Whether in "our" opinion it is fair or foul. It was inferred that people who ask the seller on eBay for a BIN are outside the rules, foul. I disagree. This is why I bought up the yard sale scenario. Why is is fair at a yard sale, but foul on eBay.

Please use your own discretion....Doug

[wds]

I don't feel it's my job to educate a seller.  If I'm interested in an item, it's my job to get it at the cheapest price possible.  It's called free enterprise, or capitalism.  (except in the case of government run businesses).  If I'm not interested in the item, then I might share some information to the seller that may benefit him.  Buy cheap, sell high.  That's how you put food on the table.

[AE_Collector]

And as Doug just pointed out, the "Seller" isn't neccesarily the guy who stored it for 40 years until it became a sought after telephone. The seller is likely somone who bought it for $5 as part of a large lot being cleared out and he bought it for $5 because he figured he could get $30 to $50 for it!

Terry

[Dave F]

But... if I had given the seller a $20 note and he gave me change for $50 I'd tell him he'd got that wrong. To do otherwise is without doubt and, above all argument, unfair.

Agreed. I am surprised at how often I am given the incorrect change and (assuming that I notice the error) I always get it corrected whether I was given too much or too little change. Usually it is young or inexperienced sales people and they are just going to get into trouble if things don't add up at the end of their shift.

Terry

Terry, Tom B (et al),

Here's a little question to think about:

Suppose you went into an auto parts store to buy a new air filter for your car.  The counter clerk there was condescending and arrogant, treated you like you were a worthless fool, and clearly demonstrated that you were a total waste of his time.  You had been in that store previously, and his treatment of you was no better in the past.  Even back then you had thought that the store would be a much better place to shop at if that guy didn't work there, but you knew that if you spoke up and got him disciplined it might cause even bigger problems for you.  Anyway, you got your air filter and, as you were walking back to your car in the parking lot, you discovered that he had given you change for a 20, but you had only given him a 10.  Would you still be inclined to run back and refund the difference or would you keep it, hoping that he would be read the riot act at the end of the day when the money in his till didn't match the sales receipts?

I contend that these questions of morality are not as black and white as some of us seem to think they are and, in fact, they are highly situationally-dependent.  What say you all?

[Tom B]

Dave
You're correct that all the decisions made are situationally dependent. If the scenario you pointed out happened to me I'd look at the counter clerk and compare myself to him, and to be honest I'd walk away smiling having corrected the other mistake he'd made with change, because its not his money, and I'm doing him no personal favours.

[DavePEI]

Dave
You're correct that all the decisions made are situationally dependent. If the scenario you pointed out happened to me I'd look at the counter clerk and compare myself to him, and to be honest I'd walk away smiling having corrected the other mistake he'd made with change, because its not his money, and I'm doing him no personal favours.

I had the same experience lately. I had gone into Future Shop to buy a new computer for the Museum, and while we were there we were treated by the salesman as if we were old idiots who had never seen a computer - quite the contrary, since my first job 40 years ago was working on DEC computers, and when I left that job, I played with every computer I could and have had my own since the earliest days of PC's, starting with a little Timex-Sinclair, going to Radio Shack, Commodores, then IBM and updating every couple of years since. Also for years now, I have been fixing up any laptop computer I can find to give to under-priviledged kids. But he stood there, trying to insinuate that we wouldn't be able to get the computer software set up.<G>, "Mister - do know where the power switch is, and how to load windows for the first time"

Any way, he shorted himself $20, and when I noticed, took the money back in, just because it would have been wrong to keep it. He probably figured knowing most young people's morals today, stupid old computer illiterate guy is too dumb to know when he gets a bargain! Guess we know what he thinks of his elders!

I must say, Linda and I may never go back into the store because of the way he treated us, but I had the satisfaction of knowing I had done the right thing. By the way, I had the software loaded and the machine going 20 minutes after I got home!

Dave

[Dennis Markham]

Since this drifted away from "500 Color Rarity", I split the topic and changed the subject line.  I moved the new topic to "off topic".

[AE_Collector]

Here's a little question to think about:

Suppose you went into an auto parts store...........
I contend that these questions of morality are not as black and white as some of us seem to think they are and, in fact, they are highly situationally-dependent.  What say you all?

Oh for sure Dave. I wasn't saying that I would never do anything besides correct the error, just that in most situations I have done what to me seemed to be the right thing. Most certainly each situation is different. The possibility exists that you have driven away maybe even hundreds of miles before you realise that a mistake was made.

Terry

[Doug Rose]

But... if I had given the seller a $20 note and he gave me change for $50 I'd tell him he'd got that wrong. To do otherwise is without doubt and, above all argument, unfair.

Agreed. I am surprised at how often I am given the incorrect change and (assuming that I notice the error) I always get it corrected whether I was given too much or too little change. Usually it is young or inexperienced sales people and they are just going to get into trouble if things don't add up at the end of their shift.

Terry

Terry, Tom B (et al),

Here's a little question to think about:

Suppose you went into an auto parts store to buy a new air filter for your car.  The counter clerk there was condescending and arrogant, treated you like you were a worthless fool, and clearly demonstrated that you were a total waste of his time.  You had been in that store previously, and his treatment of you was no better in the past.  Even back then you had thought that the store would be a much better place to shop at if that guy didn't work there, but you knew that if you spoke up and got him disciplined it might cause even bigger problems for you.  Anyway, you got your air filter and, as you were walking back to your car in the parking lot, you discovered that he had given you change for a 20, but you had only given him a 10.  Would you still be inclined to run back and refund the difference or would you keep it, hoping that he would be read the riot act at the end of the day when the money in his till didn't match the sales receipts?

I contend that these questions of morality are not as black and white as some of us seem to think they are and, in fact, they are highly situationally-dependent.  What say you all?

I used to go to the same store every day walking to my office from the train. Newspaper and a lottery ticket. Same nasty girl behind the counter. But it was right on the way. I gave her a twenty, she gave me change for a twenty plus my twenty. I gave her back the twenty and pointed out her mistake. She argued with me that she doesn't make mistakes. I left the $20 on the counter and walked out of the store for the last time. Its a question of right versus wrong. All my teaching to my children would have been lost if I kept that $20. NOT that I didn't want to. Just right from wrong. Plus Sister Bruno and the yard stick and my Catholic schools!! Ouch!....Doug

[Tom B]

In my case, Doug, it was Father 'Abdul' (every teacher or priest had his own nickname) and the window hook

[GG]

Thanks Dennis, for moving the topic.

One of the keys to what Dave and Doug just said is:  It's not about whether the other guy is a jerk, it's about whether or not you're willing to be a jerk along with him.  If you keep the extra $$, you've just stooped to the jerk's level. 

This is what I don't like about the "get away with what you can" paradigm in the economy: it insists that everyone stoop to the level of being a jerk: once again the race to the bottom. that will hopefully stop before we reach the point of cannibalism.  Fortunately a lot of people are getting fed up with it, per my comments about the Tea Party and the Occupy movement: from the right to the left, people have had enough and they're demanding things change. 

As for what to do if you drive 100 miles and discover a billing error: that one's easy, just write them a check and drop it in the post along with a letter explaining it, and call them to let them know it's coming.  Total cost, ten minutes and a stamp, rather than half a day and however-many gallons of gasoline. 

[Doug Rose]

In my case, Doug, it was Father 'Abdul' (every teacher or priest had his own nickname) and the window hook

Terry....aah Catholic schooling. Sister Bruno had the hairiest knuckles. I mean bushes. She was also over 6 foot tall. This was when Sisters had to shave their heads (told you I was old) with the flying nun hats. But she was allowed to keep the hairy knuckles, go figure.  As attractive as she sounds, she was just mean. Lack of sex will do that. Most Sisters had their rulers, she carried a yard stick. She really enjoyed dishing out punishment. Deserved or not.  I can't even remember her real name, but she scared the sh*t out of this little dude. Still does.....Doug

[dsk]

As a teacher for folks of 15-25 years age, I have experienced a lot. I try to be fair, and are regularly accused to be unfair. And Sometimes I am. It's quite heavy to admit it, but I have learned to do. And I learn them to try.  You shall be quite secure on yourselves to ask for forgiveness, and try to do well again. It is quite a great thing to forgive and accept an apologise too. If they cant trust in me, why should they ...   It works with the most of them, but some of them.... Well I have to use some of the time to teach the others too. It is a tough job, and I love it. I have loved earlier better payed jobs too, but this gives so much back.  I may say a lot negative about the coming generations, but most of them are good people. I will thank God for that, Ind I believe as far as you believe in a God it is probably the same.
dsk

[Tom B]

Doug
'Twas me not Terry Yup, Catholic schooling in the way back when (early seventies for me).... We had some real monsters with dog collars, and the headmaster was the best of all (nickname was Dinsdale Piranha from Monty Python)...oh, the stories ....and the laughs at reunions. We survived and it taught us so much that was so valuable in life.

[Doug Rose]

Doug
'Twas me not Terry Yup, Catholic schooling in the way back when (early seventies for me).... We had some real monsters with dog collars, and the headmaster was the best of all (nickname was Dinsdale Piranha from Monty Python)...oh, the stories ....and the laughs at reunions. We survived and it taught us so much that was so valuable in life.

Sorry Tom.....it is amazing we turned out relatively sane. ...Doug