Found - Wanted - looking for a 24a36 dial ... and cords

[xtal_01]

Hello .....

I don't know a lot about phones but am learning on the fly (think my little collection is now approaching 10!).

I picked up an ae40 relatively cheap.

It needs both cords (handset and wall) but otherwise seems to be complete (even has a straight line ringer).

I put pictures of it up on the web and was told it dates from 1943 (stamped copy write date on bottom).

Problem ... I am told the dial is wrong ... much newer from the 60's.

I am told it should have a "24a36"

So I am looking for the correct dial (and cords).

Thanks ..... Mike

[Jack Ryan]

A picture or two would help Mike.

Most AE 40 were made during the currency of the 24A36 but the last of them probably had Type 51 dials.

What dial is fitted?
Where did you find the date?

Jack

[xtal_01]

Here are a few picture.

I have a new gasket for the bottom and a straight line ringer.

I forget who got the dates for me ... I think it was some one off the singing wires group.

There is a date on the bottom ...... 6-11-65  ... I was told most this was most likely the refurb date and when the dial was changed.

The phone was cheap ($15) ... not a show piece but I have managed to clean up and get every one of my phones in working order before displaying them.

Thanks ..... Mike

[Jack Ryan]

I forget who got the dates for me ... I think it was some one off the singing wires group.

I'm not sure where the dates came from as there is no sign of the original base markings. If it's just from the latest copyright date that just gives the earliest date. I think it is probably from soon after WW2 so the dial probably is an update - perhaps a field replacement, perhaps at refurbishment.

Even so, lots of AE40s has Type 51 dials - they are not incorrect.

There is a date on the bottom ...... 6-11-65  ... I was told most this was most likely the refurb date and when the dial was changed.

I think the refurb dates/codes are made a little more formally than with a texta. That date looks more like something a collector or dealer did.

The phone was cheap ($15) ... not a show piece but I have managed to clean up and get every one of my phones in working order before displaying them.

Well, that's cheap enough and I don't see why it can't be a show piece - that sounds like what you are going to do with it.

Some people like phones shiny and new, others like them "as found (and cleaned)". You decide - there is no correct.

Jack

[rdelius]

That dial is not from the 1960s.By that time they were raw zinc with no finish . Your dial is late 1940s to early 1950s. I would not worry about it. I would worry about the freq ringer instead if you wanted to use it.

[xtal_01]

Thanks .... I did get a straight line ringer.

I knew nothing about frequency ringers till I started collecting phones about 1 1/2 years ago (I was born in 1962 and never had a party line).

I have had to change the ringer in about half of the phones I got.

What about the cords ... both are cracked.

Should it have a straight (not coiled) cord on it?

Rubber or cloth ?

Where can I get a new hand set and wall cord?

Here is the info sent to me by the collector who said it should have a 24a36 ...

According to one of my current (de)coding scheme experiments, RH places the set into the 3rd or 4th quarter of 1943.

This creates some conflicts.  I believe, the patent stamp on the base of your set has the location of AE listed as CHICAGO, although I couldn't actually see it in your picture that you posted at the beginning of these discussions, because of lighting issues.

As of May 1943, the postal system had implemented the first postal zones system, and AE printed their location as CHICAGO 7 virtually everywhere. About that time they also started using gold-colored water slide decals, in fact, I don't think I have seen any water decals without the zone number 7.  But there were some ink stamps with it.  The post office would have planned this roll-out well ahead of time, and business would have had plenty of time to prepare, so we can't use the May 1943 date line as a hard switch-over.  With the switch-over  however, the stamps and decals had form numbers printed in the lower left corner: D-780504-XX, where the first XX was 'A1'.

This, I believe, is your stamp: (a01)

And here is one of the first of such stamps with the form number and postal zone: (a02)

Finally, a compatible decal with the same patent numbers: (a03)

All three could have been used on N-4020 type sets of that general period, just like yours.

So, the problem is that I think by late 1943, they would have used a form number, either stamp or decal.

Another problem is that after late 1942, the telephone industry was under severe production limits by the War Production Board. In effect, no telephone sets were made for civilian installations until 1944. But that doesn't mean we cannot find sets made during that time. The military received sets and probably a few other strategic entities.

Another factor influencing telephone set production in the early 40s was that world rubber production came under 90% control by the Axis nations, in particular by Japan who took over the rubber plantations in SE Asia and prevented import of natural latex to Western countries, most notably the US, the largest consumer. There was a period in the early 40s when rubber was in such short supply that AE equipped the Type 40 Monophone with a base covering of black felt, rather than the rubber "gasket" around the base edge. This must have fallen right into 1942.

So, this all complicates the proper date assignment for telsets of this period.  If we reverse the two letters to HR, this becomes less complicated, as that would fall into the first half year of 1941 by my method.  Such code reversals can indeed be observed, for example often we find sets there the two letters are prefixed with a single digit, while the vast majority are post-fixed.

In any case I am positive that your set was made between early 1941 and late 1943, perhaps not a terribly satisfying conclusion. However, I do expect better results for 'dating' AE telephone sets in the future.