Introduction & Trouble with WE 500 Ringing

[dlvh]

Good day everyone,

This is my first official post here.

I recently purchased a Red 1965 WE 500 in fairly decent condition, and gave it a good cleaning, and all appears to work fine with it...although I can't dial out on it yet, seeings I don't have a POTS at my house, yet. Anyway, while out thrift shopping today, I found another WE 500, this one had guts from 1958 with a 425B network, and after a bit of cleanup, I find that it doesn't ring. After searching the obvious, I find that 2 wires are cut off...What appears to be a Orange Striped Wire, and the second, a Blue Striped Wire (I am attaching 2 pictures for you to see):

Can anyone try and help me get the Bells ringing on this phone? I did 'search the forums' before posting that I need help, but no search was found detailing my particular problem.

While reading a lot on this forum before posting, I can see that you folks are really nice, and would be willing to help a fellow in need, and I want to thank you all in advance!

Blessings to you all!

David

[poplar1]

The slate-orange and slate-blue wires that are cut off were originally used to turn on the dial lamp on a 500P or 500U telephone set. Your 500P/U was converted to a 500DM, so those wires were no longer needed.

The ringer appears to be connected correctly:
Red to L2
Black to L1
Slate-red to A
Slate to K

Do you see the biasing spring on the ringer? It looks like a thin, bare wire that goes through a slot in a copper-color metal piece. Right now it is in the high bias position.  Moving it to the low position may help. (Otherwise, you may have a defective capacitor or an open ringer coil.)

[dlvh]

The slate-orange and slate-blue wires that are cut off were originally used to turn on the dial lamp on a 500P or 500U telephone set. Your 500P/U was converted to a 500DM, so those wires were no longer needed.

The ringer appears to be connected correctly:
Red to L2
Black to L1
Slate-red to A
Slate to K

Do you see the biasing spring on the ringer? It looks like a thin, bare wire that goes through a slot in a copper-color metal piece. Right now it is in the high bias position.  Moving it to the low position may help. (Otherwise, you may have a defective capacitor or an open ringer coil.)

** Thanks poplar1... Right now I have it as shown in the picture below, but you say I should move it over to the "far right and down" as we look at that picture? I believe I tried that, but will do it again.

If you don't mind my asking, what makes you think this phone was a P/U model...Is it those missing wires that led you to that conclusion? That would have really been a unique phone.

David

[poplar1]

If you go to the TCI library (Telephonecollectors.info) you can search for 502-501-115 . Issue 1, Fig. 24 shows 500P.

[.....]

Welcome to CRPF.

[dlvh]

If you go to the TCI library (Telephonecollectors.info) you can search for 502-501-115 . Issue 1, Fig. 24 shows 500P.

Oh My!! I think that is well above my understanding capabilities, but I will try to understand it.

[dlvh]

OK...so how can I determine which one of those might be the culprit in not allowing my phone to ring? It's been a VERY long time since I looked, and understood, as Schematic.

dlvh

[jsowers]

You said you don't have POTS yet. What do you have? How many phones are already connected? You could be exceeding its REN (ringer equivalence). Have you tried hooking only this phone to your phone service? Sometimes you only have enough juice to ring one rotary phone. You do need to pursue getting a POTS line if you really want to use the phones all over the house. Or get something like a Panasonic phone system that's made for rotary phones.

If the above still doesn't fix it, have you tried swapping the ringers in your two phones? The wiring looks correct in your pictures, though one does have the bells and resonators missing.

About it originally being a 500P, look on the bottom and see if there's a marking that says P 500 or 500 P/U. Since it's a refurbished phone, it could be painted over the original marking. Restoring it to being a 500P would be very expensive.

[LarryInMichigan]

Does the clapper arm move at all on an incoming call?  Are the red and black ringer wires connected to terminals "L1" and "L1" and the other two wires to "A" and "K"?  Can you measure resistance between the red and slate/red and the black and slate wires? 

Larry

[poplar1]

OK...so how can I determine which one of those might be the culprit in not allowing my phone to ring? It's been a VERY long time since I looked, and understood, as Schematic.

dlvh

I only provided that link because you had asked about the two cut-off wires. So you don't need the diagram to connect the ringer.

If you have already checked that the spring is in low bias (down and to the right as you said), and that the ringer is connected as in the other working phone (red to L2, black to L1, slate to K, and slate-red to A), then you either have a bad ringer or a bad capacitor.

As Jonathan said, try swapping the ringers in the two phones. If the ringer from the red phone works in the ivory phone, then that means the ringer pictured here is bad (probably an open coil). And if the ringer from the ivory phone works in the red phone (but not in the ivory phone), then that probably means the capacitor is bad in the ivory phone.

[LarryInMichigan]

If the ringer capacitor is bad, a replacement can easily be added.

Larry

[dlvh]

You said you don't have POTS yet. What do you have? How many phones are already connected? You could be exceeding its REN (ringer equivalence). Have you tried hooking only this phone to your phone service? Sometimes you only have enough juice to ring one rotary phone. You do need to pursue getting a POTS line if you really want to use the phones all over the house. Or get something like a Panasonic phone system that's made for rotary phones.

If the above still doesn't fix it, have you tried swapping the ringers in your two phones? The wiring looks correct in your pictures, though one does have the bells and resonators missing.

About it originally being a 500P, look on the bottom and see if there's a marking that says P 500 or 500 P/U. Since it's a refurbished phone, it could be painted over the original marking. Restoring it to being a 500P would be very expensive.

I don't have POTS yet, but will be have very soon. I am switching the Red phones connection with the Beige one, so I only have 1 plugged in at a time, as to NOT exceed REN, which could possibly happen with my AT&T U-Verse.

I did remove the Bells and Resonators from the Beige phone, to see inside better. The are no signs reading "P" or "PU" underneath, only, what appears to be the original "C/D 500" it has a sticker on it designating in ow to be a 500DM, and as you might be able to see, it has newer paint in the middle section, left of the designated "C/D 500" area.

Okay...What exactly do you consider the "Ringers" in this phone? and what all is involved with doing this? Is it possible to show me what you are referring to?

** Edit...I do NOT have any ohm meter, so I can't measure the resistance, and the Clappers Do Not move at all.

** Edit # 2... "red to L2, black to L1, slate to K, and slate-red to A" <These are also wired up as properly!

Thanks already for helping guys!

dlvh

[jsowers]

Okay...What exactly do you consider the "Ringers" in this phone? and what all is involved with doing this? Is it possible to show me what you are referring to?

I've attached a picture of what we're calling the ringer. It's easy to remove and all in one piece. Unscrew the screws at the white arrows. They're captive screws, so they don't come completely out. The ringer then just pulls out from its rubber mount at the back and you loosen all four screws that fasten the ringer wires and pull them out from under the screws. It's a very neat design when you look at it.

When you put the bells and resonators back on the posts, notice there is a left bell and a right bell. They have slightly different tones. Also the right one is "eccentric" which means the hole isn't directly in the center. You can adjust it so there's a paper thin space between the clapper and the bell when you have it at full LOUD, which is farthest apart. The clapper and right-hand bell shouldn't touch, but should come very close. You do have to push the clapper all the way over toward the bell to adjust the spacing, like manually ringing the ringer with your finger. You can feel it "stop" in its travel.

Thanks for letting us know what you have. I would think U-Verse would ring more than one phone since it's a product from AT&T, but I have no experience with it to know for sure. If you were successful at getting them to sell you an analog phone line, then that's great news. All they want to sell is U-Verse, or that's what I hear.

[TelePlay]

I would think U-Verse would ring more than one phone since it's a product from AT&T, but I have no experience with it to know for sure. If you were successful at getting them to sell you an analog phone line, then that's great news. All they want to sell is U-Verse, or that's what I hear.

I have u-Verse with two phones attached, it rings them both. Never added more to see what it's limit is.

Bad thing about u-Verse is that it does not support rotary dial phones. Can't call out with a rotary. Can answer, can't call.

PS, when removing the ringer assembly, the post sticking into a washer at the bottom being the 3rd mounting point can be quite sticky - likes to hang onto the plastic post. It pulls straight out, slides in the direction of the gongs, but it may take a bit of effort.

[poplar1]

Here is another photo of a C4A ringer from a 500 telephone set: