Rivets and Rivet Tools (500 & 302, others?)

[TelePlay]

NOTE: This rivet related topic was split out of this phone restoration topic:  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=18345.0
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I have not ordered any myself to see how close to the originals these are, but they look pretty close.   You would need the tool to correctly install them.  I can find the link to the one I have if needed....

The correct tool is not cheap, $53 plus shipping and handling. Might be other suppliers but this is the only one I found after a long search in June of 2013. And, they are specific to the hollow rivet diameter. Fortunately, IIRC, the rivets used to attach 302 ringer mounts and these feet are the same diameter so the tool could be used for either. However, the length of the ringer mount rivet differs from that of the foot mounting rivets. Good part is the rivets are much cheaper, about $6 a hundred IIRC.

Scroll down about half the page for the tool selection box for different diameter rivet tools:

     https://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/123/3347/=187t8yf

With these rivet sets being inside the chassis, I sure any tool that would round these out would work, just not look nice if they split. For 302 mounts which are visible, a bad set would be obvious. Also, setting these using a hammer and solid backing arrangement is superior to "press" type setups in that tapping allows total control over the set including a change of sound when the set is complete, a solid sounding tap.

[RotarDad]

John - I bought some rivets, and got the tool info, from Dennis H. (Dencins).  The rivets were correct for the leather-footed 500s.  The tool I bought is here:

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=W403

I'm pretty sure I paid maybe $16 or $18 though; but that was several years ago.  Still reasonable at $26, if you plan on making lots of repairs.  Works great. One attachment to drive out the old rivet, and a second one to roll the new one.

[TelePlay]

John - I bought some rivets, and got the tool info, from Dennis H. (Dencins).  The rivets were correct for the leather-footed 500s.  The tool I bought is here:

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=W403

I'm pretty sure I paid maybe $16 or $18 though; but that was several years ago.  Still reasonable at $26, if you plan on making lots of repairs.  Works great. One attachment to drive out the old rivet, and a second one to roll the new one.

Yes, those are readily available for a reasonably cheap price. I saw those back then but the problem is, the throat is not deep enough to set a 302 ringer mount, the reason I bought what I did. As a benefit, it also works for WE foot rivets. My first intent was ringer mounts, the feet rivets were a bonus.

I'd like to see an image of the working end of that brake rivet setting tool. Is it flat or does it have the curl over as shown on the end of my punch to set the hollow rivets. I can't tell from the photo they provide. But you did get the manual type that needs a hammer to set the rivet. Better feel when setting them. They make those with a threaded shaft to tighten and set the rivet and I've been told those don't work well.

It does seem that aircraft rivets are hollow tube. Do you have any pictures of rivets that you've set?

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These are the semi-tubular or hollow ended (just the end 0.275" is hollow) steel 500 foot pad rivet specs Dennis Hallworth gave me some time ago:

     4-5S nickel finish steel rivet
     150 deg countersunk head
     W/.275 deep hole

Hanson Rivet No:  BSCN05 (4-5S @ $3.40 per 100 plus S&H)

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As an FYI, I bought brass semi-tubular rivets for the 302 ringer mount from McMaster-Carr Part #97451A653 at $11.22 per 100. They are about the same except for the tubular depth and the material, specs below:

     Barrel Diameter: 9/64ths
     Long:  0.375"
     Head  Diameter:  0.313"
     Internal Hole Depth:  1/8" (semi-tubular end depth)
     Countersink Angle:  150°

[RotarDad]

John - Here are (poor) pics of the tool ends (yes it creates a nice roll), and the tubular rivets (the one on the left is an original removed 500 foot rivet.

Apologies to Christian for the tangent here - your projects create some great side discussions!

[andre_janew]

For some strange reason, these rivets remind me of the harness rivets my dad used to use on various things.  He didn't use a riveting tool.  He used a hammer and a setting tool for the washer and riveted it all together with the hammer.

[HarrySmith]

Are the rivets for the 500 feet the same as the 302 feet?

[TelePlay]

Are the rivets for the 500 feet the same as the 302 feet?

Good question Harry.

I bought them a different times suggest by different members. Comparing them now, they are very close but not quite the same.

First, the ringer mount rivet is brass, the foot pad rivet is steel. Does it make a difference, I would think steel on the ringer would be better than brass on the foot pads.

Then, the head diameter (0.313"), countersunk angle (150°) and tube diameter (0.143") are the same.

However, the ringer mount rivet length is 0.375" and the foot pad rivet length is 0.3125"

    and, the hole depth for the ringer mount rivet is 0.125" and the foot pad rivet length is 0.156"

Each worked for the purpose for which they were purchased. I haven't tried to use them interchangeably and don't have any projects going where I could check that out right now.