Desk Stand Performance

[New England Tel.]

I have a Western Electric 50C that I restored some years back. It works and sounds great. But there is one issue that has always had me wondering. You know how the switchhook has a bit of "sideplay" on its pivot? I mean, the hook does move a bit from side-to-side. Well, when talking on it, if I'm holding it and happen to move the phone, I'll hear a loud clang in the receiver, as the hook moves back and forth from one side to the other.

Is this normal? Has anyone else noticed this on their desk stands?

I just find this noise incredibly irritating, but, if it's normal, then I'll be OK with it.

What say you?


Bob

[unbeldi]

I have a Western Electric 50C that I restored some years back. It works and sounds great. But there is one issue that has always had me wondering. You know how the switchhook has a bit of "sideplay" on its pivot? I mean, the hook does move a bit from side-to-side. Well, when talking on it, if I'm holding it and happen to move the phone, I'll hear a loud clang in the receiver, as the hook moves back and forth from one side to the other.

Is this normal? Has anyone else noticed this on their desk stands?

I just find this noise incredibly irritating, but, if it's normal, then I'll be OK with it.

What say you?


Bob

Sounds like the switchhook is worn out too much, so it causes random contact spring interruptions.

[New England Tel.]

The thing is, this is not an electronic sound - like the breaking and making of the switch contacts. There's nothing wrong with the switch.  What's happening is that the transmitter is amplifying the sound of the hook physically hitting each side. This happens if I am holding the phone and I tilt the phone while talking, and the hook moves from one side to the other (we're talking 1/8", measured at the end of the hook).

[poplar1]

I don't think that 1/8" play is normal. Are the screws that hold the rack to the lug holder (perch) tight? These are the ones that you have to remove in order to remove the pin that holds the hook.

Sound travels best through solids. That's why the handset pay phones have coin signal transmitters (so the operator could tell how much money was deposited), but the early pay phones with the separate transmitter and receiver didn't require separate transmitters to detect the coins. Your transmitter probably also picks up certain mechanical sounds from the dial as well.

[Mr. Bones]

     Without tearing apart my sole desk stand to put an eyeball on the method the shaft is attached, I humbly submit that one might, perhaps, be able to put some shims, washers, etc, on the pivot shaft of the switchhook to center it / reduce sideplay, and eradicate the "loud clang".

     Were it me, I'd probably use something non-metallic / non-conductive, which should also prove a better sound insulator than metal upon metal.

     Plastic sheet goods, margarine tubs? Takeaway food containers? Yogurt cups? Were it my predicament, this is where I might begin, given the absence of more experience.

     Perhaps, depending on the shaft diameter, one could drill a few holes of appropriate size to the shaft (tight fit), then center a paper punch, or summat over the holes, and fabricate some washers.

     Ideally, one or more of the members of the forum will have a more definitive, less hillbilly solution!

Best regards, and good luck!

     

[New England Tel.]

I don't think that 1/8" play is normal. Are the screws that hold the rack to the lug holder (perch) tight? These are the ones that you have to remove in order to remove the pin that holds the hook.

Absolutely good & tight.

Sound travels best through solids...

That's a fact.

Your transmitter probably also picks up certain mechanical sounds from the dial as well.

Which I wouldn't care about since one can't dial and talk at the same time.  , but I'm sure that you're correct!

I guess what I'm looking for here is to see if this "problem" is actually normal. What I'm asking is, could any of you who have Western Electric desk stands of any model, and are hooked up, possibly put the receiver to your ear, then rock the phone, as too make the hook slop back and forth and see if you can hear it loudly in the receiver?

Also, helpful would be to use a ruler at the hook (when off-hook) move it side-to-side, and measure the play?

This info would be greatly appreciated.

Bob

[New England Tel.]

     Without tearing apart my sole desk stand to put an eyeball on the method the shaft is attached, I humbly submit that one might, perhaps, be able to put some shims, washers, etc, on the pivot shaft of the switchhook to center it / reduce sideplay, and eradicate the "loud clang".

     Were it me, I'd probably use something non-metallic / non-conductive, which should also prove a better sound insulator than metal upon metal.

I actually considered this at one point - obtaining a couple of nylon washers and using them as shims/silencers. However, I just can't bring myself to do it. Y'see, when I restore a phone, I insist on it being electrically & mechanically original. I'm very "anal" in that way. I just can't do it.

Thanks anyway! 

Bob

[BDM]

Curious, how do you find the sound quality from that solid back transmitter?

[New England Tel.]

Curious, how do you find the sound quality from that solid back transmitter?

Short Answer - Pretty good!

Detailed answer - I think it actually sounds quite good, after taking into consideration that it is old technology. It is certainly no F1 or T1 transmitter, and it has frequency response and acoustic dampening limitations, so I don't expect it to sound like a 500 set! I'll describe it the best I can. Listening to the sidetone through the No. 144 receiver, it sounds reasonably loud & clear, but it (like all solid-backs) does exhibit some of the "talking in a tube" sound quality. The people that I've called with this phone have never initiated a comment such as, "What's wrong with your phone?", or other remark. When I've asked them about the quality, they have all said that it sounds loud & clear, but "I could tell you were using an old phone".

That pretty much sums it up.

[BDM]

My experience for the most part, though several folks did not care for the narrow freq response of the solid back's.

[New England Tel.]

I decided to do some more testing & investigation on this clanging switchhook "problem". As an aside, I'll tell you all, the Panasonic 308 PBX that I have really proves its worth every time I turn around. Every phone collector/enthusiast should own one!

I hooked my stand & subset up and tried it out with my daughter on a different extension. Now, my own perception, listening to the sidetone, is, as I said above - if I rock the phone and cause the hook to "slop" back and forth, I will hear a loud "clang". She, on the other hand, did hear "tapping" noises on her end. Then, I switched locations with her, showed her how to move the phone, and I listened to it as the "distant" party. I heard the noises, but, tapping (not clanging). And it really wasn't loud nor objectionable (keep in mind that in a normal conversation, this noise would not be a continuous thing). That both surprised & pleased me.

However, the strange thing that I noticed (when talking on the stand myself) is that the "clang" is not the only sound I heard in the sidetone. Any time I would move any of my fingers along the stem, or tap a finger, or move my hand - I would hear all manner of squeaks, squawks, & noises!

So, it seemed to me, that in fact, it is NOT a problem with the hook, but rather this transmitter seems to be amplifying every vibration in the body of this phone. To test this, I removed the solid-back transmitter, and installed a 635A transmitter in its place. This quieted everything right down!
Now I can shake the phone madly back and forth, and the sound is barely perceptible in my own receiver, and unnoticeable at the "distant" phone. Unbelievable difference!

Now, for another test, I picked up the receiver on my 533E Metal Wall Phone (with another solid-back transmitter). I moved the hook manually side-to-side and got the same sound in that receiver.

Again, I ask, could any of you who have one of these phones hooked up try to duplicate this noise to see if your phones experience it? I just find it incredible that Western Electric would not try to do something to dampen this noise, even back in the 1920s-30s!

Thanks...

Bob

[unbeldi]

I decided to do some more testing & investigation on this clanging switchhook "problem". As an aside, I'll tell you all, the Panasonic 308 PBX that I have really proves its worth every time I turn around. Every phone collector/enthusiast should own one!

I hooked my stand & subset up and tried it out with my daughter on a different extension. Now, my own perception, listening to the sidetone, is, as I said above - if I rock the phone and cause the hook to "slop" back and forth, I will hear a loud "clang". She, on the other hand, did hear "tapping" noises on her end. Then, I switched locations with her, showed her how to move the phone, and I listened to it as the "distant" party. I heard the noises, but, tapping (not clanging). And it really wasn't loud nor objectionable (keep in mind that in a normal conversation, this noise would not be a continuous thing). That both surprised & pleased me.

However, the strange thing that I noticed (when talking on the stand myself) is that the "clang" is not the only sound I heard in the sidetone. Any time I would move any of my fingers along the stem, or tap a finger, or move my hand - I would hear all manner of squeaks, squawks, & noises!

So, it seemed to me, that in fact, it is NOT a problem with the hook, but rather this transmitter seems to be amplifying every vibration in the body of this phone. To test this, I removed the solid-back transmitter, and installed a 635A transmitter in its place. This quieted everything right down!
Now I can shake the phone madly back and forth, and the sound is barely perceptible in my own receiver, and unnoticeable at the "distant" phone. Unbelievable difference!

Now, for another test, I picked up the receiver on my 553A Metal Wall Phone (with another solid-back transmitter). I moved the hook manually side-to-side and got the same sound in that receiver.

Again, I ask, could any of you who have one of these phones hooked up try to duplicate this noise to see if your phones experience it? I just find it incredible that Western Electric would not try to do something to dampen this noise, even back in the 1920s-30s!

Thanks...

Bob

I do remember having similar acoustic issues with a desk stand, not however caused by a loose switchhook arm.
I believe that this was a very common experience at the time, but was perhaps less noticeable with newly made transmitters that had fresh carbon granule loads.

The same problem was part of the reason why the Bell System waited until the late 20s to distribute the combined handset. Acoustic coupling or feedback between receiver and transmitter was a common problem. Other manufacturers had suffered through similar issues.  The E1 handset wasn't released until WECo had this problem somewhat in check.