BDL's First Restoration Project WE D1 w/E1

[Adam]

I tried to call Liberty on the Hudson ... Unfortunately, they did not answer

They could be dealing with power problems and/or flooding from Hurricane Irene...

[cihensley@aol.com]

bigdaddylove:

You probably won't get a response to your email. I asked the same question, by email, about baking the finished product. They never responded. I asked this question after I purchased the product. I baked it anyway. Overall, baked or not, it does not produce as good a finish as homemade japan and other coatings you can use.

Chuck

[bigdaddylove]

Actually, they responded rather quickly; I was surprised.

Here's what was asked and answered:


1. I noticed that you are not to stove this product. As such, will the product be durable enough once cured to be used on a telephone?

Cures completely with natural air cure.  Stoving not necessary.

2. Is sanding or polishing required between coats?

As with any finish, some sanding may be necessary between coats to eliminate airborne dust from accumulating.


3. Will this product dry smooth and semi gloss similar to the original finish of a Western Electric phone from the 1920s and 1930s?

This historic finish was always gloss.  To achieve semigloss it would have to be buffed down with fine steel wool and/or buffing compound after complete cure (minimum 1 week).

[bigdaddylove]

bigdaddylove:

You probably won't get a response to your email. I asked the same question, by email, about baking the finished product. They never responded. I asked this question after I purchased the product. I baked it anyway. Overall, baked or not, it does not produce as good a finish as homemade japan and other coatings you can use.

Chuck

From your experience, what works and looks the best? Have you made your own recipe? If so, would you be willing to share?

Thanks!

[cihensley@aol.com]

bigdaddylove:

Attached is representative of the formula I have used for japanning. I have a hard copy of it I have used when I made japan. Rather than scan it, I went to the Net and found the attached copy. There are several on the Net. They vary slightly on the formula but are essentially similar. I have made japan on several occasions and used the ready made japan from Liberty on the Hudson. Probably like you, I was striving for authenticity in refinishing an old metal phones.

I came to a realization that I probably can not reproduce the WECo process. I don't know what their actual ingredients were. For example see the attached page from the 1939 issue of From the Far Corners of the Earth. WECo cites the use of something called stearin pitch in their japan. This is not included in any of the recipes I have found. From other articles I have, I surmised that WECO baked the japan they spayed on. How long? What temperature? I have read that WECo used baked japan because they could use the resultant parts in the subsequent manufacturing process without a long drying period. I have found the japan I have used does not, baked or unbaked, dry any faster than present day coatings, in fact may be slower drying. Did they use something that I don't know about to provide rapid drying?

I have switched to modern coatings for all metal phone restorations. There are several to choose from, probably all good. I use Rustoleum gloss black thinned 50% with naptha (2 parts paint, 1 part naptha) This I spray on with an airbrush then heat to maximize smoothness.

(There are 2 attachments. Be sure to open the one titled "ElMorain...")

Chuck

[bigdaddylove]

Thanks, Chuck.

Well, all things considered, maybe I should just use a modern enamel like the Dupli-Coat or the recipe you use.

Thanks for all the info,
Joe

[GG]

Re. Cihensley, re stearin pitch, a couple of things come to mind:

One, stearic acid: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stearic_acid

Notice that your Bell article refers to the product being made from animal fats and then processed, and the Wikipedia article refers to the product being made from animal fats.

"Pitch" is heavy black stuff similar to tar but is quite a bit more solid, or "viscous."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitch_(resin)

So I'm going to risk installing a foot in my mouth here, and suggest that stearin pitch was a form of pitch modified with stearic acid to gain useful properties: probably a temporary increase in its flowability to enable it to be applied to surfaces. 

In any case the japanned finish was the best they could come up with then, and modern methods are presumably a significant improvement.  "Paint" of all kinds, including japan, was originally nothing more than a coating to protect an object from corrosion or similar damage over time; only later did it also take on a decorative or aesthetic function. 

Also:  Early Ford automobiles, black only.  Locomotives, black only.  Many types of heavy equipment such as steam shovels (excavators), black only.  Typewriters and office equipment, black only.  The only other choices for metal items that had decorative aspects, were various plated or polished finishes.

So I tend to think that people in those times, didn't think anything of it that most of the metal objects in their environment were black.  Only after the paint & coatings industry developed much further, mostly after WW2, did the idea of other colors for these objects even begin to percolate into mass public awareness.
   
--

My inclination is to think that powder-coating will provide a surface that is roughly equivalent to original, and more durable than any other conventional modern coating such as sprayed paint.  I have an AE 21 desk stand that needs to be repainted (it was long ago stripped to a dull brass finish), and it's worthwhile for me to get it powder coated. 

Question is, what to do about the transmitter?  Is it safe to disassemble and remove all of the working components from the transmitter face, so the face can be powder coated?  And how easy is it to reassemble the components onto the powder-coated face? 

[cihensley@aol.com]

GG:

Thank you for the information on stearin pitch. I agree with the balance of your statements.

Chuck

[TelePlay]

The vacuum distillation of animal fatty acids (probably reacted prior to distillation) to produce stearin pitch is no Chemistry 101 lab experiment. On the other hand, I can remember several day in advanced organic synthesis where the desired product was found to be a lump of black goo at the bottom of my beaker, and it wasn't bakelite. It's amazing what the well funded and equipped engineers and scientists in the work shops that would one day become Bell Labs were able to create. It would have been nice if they had left their detailed methods and procedures available to those who would be interested in trying to repeat what those people did back in the day. Other than the general patent documents, the detailed chemical processes must still be lock away in some old, dark and long forgotten vault.

Here's a link to a good paper describing the chemical process of creating tar or pitch, including processing apparatus, if you want to build one in your basement or garage. 

     http://tinyurl.com/3gwj4bu

Seems the tar or pitch was the residue left in the bottom of the distillation vat after all the other "unwanted" chemicals were removed.

I think I'll stick to dupli-color for black, or powder coat . . .

[bigdaddylove]

Finished cleaning the dial for the most part. Now it's off to Texas!