Question of Morality re: making offers on current ebaY auctions

[Signguy]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) I don't know what a $300 phone is as of now.  If I did I probably would go with handing over the $10.

Cheers.... Ell

[AE_Collector]

Try to keep the wraps on this discussion as I am waiting to see if "Stockdale" accepts my sky high offer of 250% more ($100) than he paid ($40) for that Mahogany 40 he just picked up. (kidding)

Terry

[Dave F]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) I don't know what a $300 phone is as of now.  If I did I probably would go with handing over the $10.

Cheers.... Ell

PROBABLY?  Come on now, don't be wishy-washy and hedge your true feelings.  Tell us what you would do.  (Of course you would pay the $10 and run.  I know I would.)

DF

[Kenny C]

I for one would pay the 10 dollars and bolt. In fact I did that with my 1937 302.

The way I see it, he could of looked up some information on the 302 and found that a 1937 model would be worth a pretty penny. But he marked it 10.00 and I gave him what he asked and got a great phone.

There was no way I was going to say, well that's worth 150+.

That's all I have to say.

[AE_Collector]

I am pretty sure we are talking two different things here. If an item has a price marked on it (unless there is evidence that it has been tampered with) or you ask someone what they want for an item at a yard sale, then that's the asking price. It is up to the buyer as to whether it is a good deal or not. My wife comes home with things from stores that were marked 90% off quite often, that's what they want for the item on that particular day.

The discussion was about ending auctions early and attempting to cheat the seller as well as other potential buyers. While on the surface that practice doesn't seem right to me either, don't they say that all is fair in love and war? So it is what it is and each of us will have to live with ourselves for how we play the game. The seller ultimately has the choice to let the auction run, end it early, add a BIN etc. I don't think there is anything else to be done about it.

Terry

[Dave F]

...The discussion was about ending auctions early and attempting to cheat the seller as well as other potential buyers....
Terry

I still have to disagree here.  If (and that's a big IF) anybody there is doing any cheating, by accepting the early BIN offer, it is the (greedy) SELLER who is doing so.  All he has to do is politely decline the offer in the name of "fairness".

DF

[Kenny C]

I Don't have any experience with auctions, but I agree that it doesn't sound fair in ways.

Sorry about the yardsale post I guess something got lost in translation with me, it happens quite often

[Signguy]

Dave ..... Good point...I'd hand over the money and run.

A short story.... Avertised for pottery one time and got a reply from a lady. We had made deal on 5 or 6 pieces when I saw a beautiful leather hat box. Inside was a never used, 1890's, beaver felt derby hat. I asked it was for sale and she said yes, for $10. I told her it was worth more then that and offered $60. She grabbed up the hat AND the pottery and refused to sell me anything. Never did get from her the reasoning for her actions because after that she would not even talk to us. Left empty handed... Go figure.

Cheers.... Ell

[Dave F]

Dave ..... Good point...I'd hand over the money and run.

YES! An honest man!!  Thank you.

A short story.... Avertised for pottery one time and got a reply from a lady. We had made deal on 5 or 6 pieces when I saw a beautiful leather hat box. Inside was a never used, 1890's, beaver felt derby hat. I asked it was for sale and she said yes, for $10. I told her it was worth more then that and offered $60. She grabbed up the hat AND the pottery and refused to sell me anything. Never did get from her the reasoning for her actions because after that she would not even talk to us. Left empty handed... Go figure.

Cheers.... Ell

Another nice example of "No good deed goes unpunished".

[ESalter]

I'd hand over the money and run too.  I did that when I got my pink 1220 Trimline at a hamfest for $3 or $4.  That's what the lady wanted, I was tickled pink to get such a cool phone that cheap, I walked away and BOTH of us were happy, we both got what we wanted.

I don't agree with people making/taking offers on Ebay because that isn't the way ebay is supposed to work, but at the same time, if a seller accepts an offer, both parties are happy.  The only ones unhappy are the rest of us seeing it happen while we play by ebay's rules.

---Eric

[paul-f]

I don't agree with people making/taking offers on Ebay because that isn't the way ebay is supposed to work, but at the same time, if a seller accepts an offer, both parties are happy.  The only ones unhappy are the rest of us seeing it happen while we play by ebay's rules.

It seems to me that the way ebay is supposed to work is defined by ebay in ebay's rules and operating practices.

Ending auctions early or switching to BIN is (apparently) supported by ebay's rules and operating practices.

Therefore, ending auctions early or switching to BIN is the way ebay is supposed to work (according to ebay).

It may not be the way we want it to work, but as Terry observed,  "It is what it is."  At some point, we need to accept reality and decide how best to act on that knowledge.

Perhaps we should take up a collection and buy ebay, so we can set the rules.  

[Tom B]

I have to say that an item is only worth what a seller will pay, or what a buyer will accept. Seems fair to both at the time, whether on eBay or at a fleamarket, and its down to first come first served. If a seller on eBay lets an auction run full term after an offer has been made for BIN he takes the risk that he will not achieve the initial bid offered - that's the way it goes. Proverb applicable is
"Better a bird in the hand than 2 in the bush", perhaps. On the other hand in an ideal world the proverb "you win some, you lose some" wouldn't be relevant.
To be fair I would offer the $10 and run. But... if I had given the seller a $20 note and he gave me change for $50 I'd tell him he'd got that wrong. To do otherwise is without doubt and, above all argument, unfair.

[ESalter]

I think Paul said it best.  We need to just accept this will happen and act based on this knowledge.  The only offers I've ever made to sellers have been after an auction ended with no bids.  Maybe making offers will soon be the only way to "win" an item, not just being on top at the end of the auction.  Just thinking about that possibility is pretty scary.

Also, I'm all for buying up ebay.  We'd get paypal too, that's the makings of a money tree right there.  All new auctions in the telephone category wouuld need to get screened by an appointed Phone Forum representative before posting(I nominate myself for this position).     ---Eric

[AE_Collector]

But... if I had given the seller a $20 note and he gave me change for $50 I'd tell him he'd got that wrong. To do otherwise is without doubt and, above all argument, unfair.

Agreed. I am surprised at how often I am given the incorrect change and (assuming that I notice the error) I always get it corrected whether I was given too much or too little change. Usually it is young or inexperienced sales people and they are just going to get into trouble if things don't add up at the end of their shift.

Terry

[GG]

Doug, the question you're asking has a whole bunch of implicit assumptions, like one of those "who would you toss out of the lifeboat?" exercises.  There isn't a Yes/No answer to that question without all the conditionals being spelled out.

I don't know what a "$300 telephone" is unless I see one advertised on Ebay for $300.  

For example let's say I go to a flea market and see what looks like a medium-to-dark-gray WE 500 with a date of let's say 1955 on the bottom.  Now my first reaction would be "that's weird, a black phone faded halfway to gray?" and my second reaction would be "oh cool, 1954!"  At that point if the seller is asking $10, I'll happily pay the $10.  Then I get home, take the phone apart, and find out that it really isn't faded black, it's gray on the inside too, and my reaction is "weirder and weirder, I never knew they made them in this color!"  Then somewhere along the line, I read about gray 500s being rare as hen's teeth, and see the Ebay auction where one just sold for close to $300.  At that point my reaction is "holy cow, is that what I have here?!" and so it goes.  

But your insistence on a hypothetical misses entirely the point I made by relating what I *actually did.*  I could have scooped up a decent stash of NOS 302s for $15 each, but instead I told the guy they were worth $75 each at that point in time (this was about 25 years ago), and since I wasn't in the position to fork over the dough for those, I let the deal pass.  

What I would do today about those 302s:  "I can help you get those sold for $75 each, but I'd like to have one of them as a sales commission."

What someone "would do" is all hypothetical.  What someone "actually did" is a more accurate statement of how they match up their ethics with their behavior.

In a way this line of enquiry is similar to "can an atheist have morals if they don't believe in a deity as a source of moral commandments?"  Any atheist will tell you, they certainly do have morals, and they can usually explain the philosophical framework of their moral code as well as any theist (member of a religion).  But in the end, for theists and atheists alike, morality is as morality does: what does the person actually *do*, what have they actually *done*?      

I'm not interested in waging a crusade against anyone for how they behave in relation to auctions, BIN, or flea markets.  But if we can encourage people to behave in a reasonable manner, excellent.  And if that spreads out to encompass other business dealings, all the better.