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Nickel WE 20-B

Started by Doug Rose, December 22, 2012, 06:26:50 PM

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Doug Rose

I took a gamble on a Buy it Now on Tuesday, a Nickel 20-B with only two not too good pictures. It had been on a little more than an hour. It was from a Long time Collector. I got it Thusday but couldn't work on it until today. Upon inspection nickel looked really good for a 100 Year old phone. I didn't use anything more abrasive than Brasso, paper towels, Q-tips and a toothpick.

I was thrilled at how nice it turned out. The worst was the polish that had been in the cracks for years. Original nickel. 98% still there with a few small areas of brass showing. NO Corrosion at all! Took me almost four hours but the nickel still remained on . I was nervous about using fine steel wool.
Kidphone

Doug Rose

#1
This was always a hard stick for me to find as I had the earlier one with the knurled nut and the wire coming out of the transmitter. I got a really good deal as the seller had it "on sale." Right place right time. I was fortunate to have the receiver and mouthpiece along with a fantastic cord...Doug


http://www.ebay.com/itm/281040626553
Kidphone

HowardPgh

Doug- Very good find. Can you provide some pictures of your 20B's side by side?  Also what do the switches and terminal boards look like?
Howard
Howard

Sargeguy

What are the markings on the base?
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

cihensley@aol.com


davidbholcomb

Dave, who still needs a Transmitter Bracket for the Automatic Electric Type 38 Handset.

Sargeguy

#6
I think the transmitter was added later by a collector.  If the Bell System added a 323 to this phone, I think they would have re-designated it with a new model number.  Also a 323 in nickel would be more common on a wall phone or intercom than a candlestick.  I would use a *229* transmitter and a patent dated two-piece transmitter cup with the hole in the back for the green cord.  And a knurled nut if you can find them.  And a 122 receiver of course.  Another possibility is that they took the 20-B perch and replaced whatever the previous perch was (20-PC. 20-BC).  What are the patent dates on the base?  Regardless, it's still a good deal-those perches sell for around $75 themselves. 
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

dencins

#7
I think Greg is correct that the transmitter was replaced.  I can only see one wire going through the perch to the transmitter.  If the phone is insulated I would expect two wires going through the perch.  How many terminals are on the switch?  If there are six then there should be two wires between the transmitter and the switch.  Does the switch hook have a black phenolic insulator where it contacts the switch?

If it is insulated then it would not be a 20-B should have been X'd out or as Greg stated that someone put a 20-B perch on it.

Dennis Hallworth

Doug Rose

You guys are the experts, but I really doubt the transmitter was swapped out recently by a collector. This is old nickel that has a patina all to itself. The entire stick has the same warmth. I had a *229* nickel transmitter and I was thinking about a swap. Although it was it great shape, it did not match the patina of the rest of the stick. It was all wrong for this stick. Looked like a recent add, even though it was really old.

There is no writing at all on the base and it looks exactly like the base on my #10 without the wood bottom. Best I can describe it is flat. My 22 has a normal raised base with writting around the stem on the base and a different shape to it. I am far from the experts that you are, but I think this is how it has been for a very long time. I got it filthy and laboriously cleaned it with brasso, tooth pics, q-tips and a soft cloth. As for the second transmitter wire, I did not open it as it will not be a working stick. I am very happy the way it is....Doug
Kidphone

poplar1

I don't think the perch was changed out. There are dates on the perch but not on the base. Although there may have been some overlap, usually the dates are on the perch OR the base, but not both.

Doug, I know you have other priorities, but maybe sometime you can look for the clues Dennis mentioned (the phenolic insulator on the hook, the number of terminals on the rack, and the number of wires going to the transmitter). Or contact the seller; perhaps he will remember if he did any changes. But I tend to agree with Doug that this 323 transmitter has been there for a long time.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Sargeguy

Maybe it was switched out by a collector a long time ago. ;D
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

dencins

The production years for the 20-B was from 1903 through 1912.  The first insulated transmitter was the 271 (pre-1912 and only on 20-P) followed by the 291 (1912) then the 329 (1913) and the 323 (1917).  The only 20-X (X being a single letter) candlestick that was insulated was the 20-P.  Anti-sidetone common battery circuit was introduced around 1930.

Based on the production dates all factory produced 20-B's were uninsulated and sidetone so a 20-B would not have a 323 transmitter unless it was put on later. 

It is possble to use a 323 as uninsulated transmitter by attaching a wire from the wire connection on the bridge to the faceplate thus bypassing the insulator between the bridge and the carbon module holder.  On a 20-B this would avoid needing to change the switch.

Dennis Hallworth   

poplar1

Quote from: dencins on January 30, 2013, 07:50:44 PM
The production years for the 20-B was from 1903 through 1912.  The first insulated transmitter was the 271 (pre-1912 and only on 20-P) followed by the 291 (1912) then the 329 (1913) and the 323 (1917).  The only 20-X (X being a single letter) candlestick that was insulated was the 20-P.  Anti-sidetone common battery circuit was introduced around 1930.

Based on the production dates all factory produced 20-B's were uninsulated and sidetone so a 20-B would not have a 323 transmitter unless it was put on later. 

It is possble to use a 323 as uninsulated transmitter by attaching a wire from the wire connection on the bridge to the faceplate thus bypassing the insulator between the bridge and the carbon module holder.  On a 20-B this would avoid needing to change the switch.

Dennis Hallworth   

And this is exactly what I would expect a technician to do in the field--use the transmitter stock he had on his truck and run a jumper instead of replacing the switch. (And in those days, they didn't swap out the whole phone.)
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Sargeguy

That looks like the correct base for an early 20-B or 22.  They were used with both wooden and steel baseplates.  Does it have one of those early cast iron stem bolts?
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409