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New way to date early 500 housings?

Started by WEBellSystemChristian, January 10, 2015, 10:07:02 AM

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WEBellSystemChristian

I have always noticed the little notches on the bottom front edge of my 500 sets, but I never knew why they were there. Today as I was looking over my soft plastic red 500, I decided to read the notch numbers, separated by the spaces. The first set of them is 10, followed by 8, and then 3. I realized that that was the date of the housing; 10-1958in the 3rd shift! This could be a new way for us (unless everyone knows this method and I'm just an ignorant moron :P) to date a 500 without taking the shell off the housing, or if someone got paint over the ink date so that it would be impossible to read.

Did you guys know about this? I certainly didn't, and it could really come in handy for me if I'm in an antique store without a screwdriver!

Some of these are kind of hard to count in the picture, but one of them in the "8" series is mostly covered up by and mold marking, so don't confuse that for a spacer.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

TelePlay

So what are the dates for this phone on the network, dial and ringer? Do they match your theory?

WEBellSystemChristian

Quote from: TelePlay on January 10, 2015, 10:22:38 AM
So what are the dates for this phone on the network, dial and ringer? Do they match your theory?
They're all 10-58 as well. I already knew what the housing date was, since the stamp is still visible, but I just couldn't decipher the notches until now.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

WesternElectricBen

Interesting, I never looked for these marks before. Have you checked this with other phones to see if the dates correlate with the hash marks?

Ben

WEBellSystemChristian

Quote from: WesternElectricBen on January 10, 2015, 10:35:15 AM
Interesting, I never looked for these marks before. Have you checked this with other phones to see if the dates correlate with the hash marks?

Ben
I just checked my pink 8-58, and it also says "10-8-3" :'(. I guess I was wrong, but what are the odds that my 10-58-3 housing lined up perfectly with the markings "10-8-3"? At least we know that if a housing has these markings, it lines up in the mid to late 1950s (checked a '53 housing, it doesn't have these, and a '62 housing doesn't have these either. All of my mid to late '50s 500s have these).

If these don't have anything to do with the date, does anyone have a guess as to what they were for?
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

unbeldi

There is no evidence that the last digit in the stamped date is actually a 'shift'.

WEBellSystemChristian

Quote from: unbeldi on January 10, 2015, 11:32:14 AM
There is no evidence that the last digit in the stamped date is actually a 'shift'.

Well, that has been the common theory here. I haven't heard anything arguing that statement.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

unbeldi

Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on January 10, 2015, 11:37:54 AM
Quote from: unbeldi on January 10, 2015, 11:32:14 AM
There is no evidence that the last digit in the stamped date is actually a 'shift'.

Well, that has been the common theory here. I haven't heard anything arguing that statement.

Yes, neither pro nor contra. It's a theory.

Phonesrfun

Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on January 10, 2015, 11:37:54 AM
Well, that has been the common theory here. I haven't heard anything arguing that statement.

Probably nobody has come out and said it was false just simply because nobody knows whether it is or is not.  I have heard it said several times in this and other forums, and in some readings that it is only a theory. 

Another one of these mysteries seems to be whether or not the "KS" in a part number stands for Kearney Specification, Kearney Standard, or whether it has anything to do with Kearney at all.  Some have done an immense amount of research only to come up empty handed.
-Bill G

unbeldi

#9
Quote from: Phonesrfun on January 10, 2015, 12:02:19 PM
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on January 10, 2015, 11:37:54 AM
Well, that has been the common theory here. I haven't heard anything arguing that statement.

Probably nobody has come out and said it was false just simply because nobody knows whether it is or is not.  I have heard it said several times in this and other forums, and in some readings that it is only a theory. 

Another one of these mysteries seems to be whether or not the "KS" in a part number stands for Kearney Specification, Kearney Standard, or whether it has anything to do with Kearney at all.  Some have done an immense amount of research only to come up empty handed.

Indeed.

I actually believe that the date stamps do not even necessarily represent manufacturing dates, meaning the date that they were molded.  I believe they are quality inspection dates and in some cases assembly dates which could easily happen on different days.
There have been observations that plastic parts were stamped twice with dates in different but adjacent (IIRC) months. From a practical point of view, it seems impractical by work flow that all parts would be stamped right after creation. Housings were piled up on transport pallets out of the molding rooms, several feet high. At some point they were inspected and hung on hooks feeding into the assembly lines were workers assembled the phones. Perhaps somewhere here were they first individually handled and stamped, this could be well after molding, perhaps days.

On the 302 telephones for example, the stamp on the base plate is always identical to the stamp on the ringer coil insulation, and they are always in the same orientation. When the date includes a suffix, such an -A for an aluminum plate, they are always stamped the same.  I have no doubt they were stamped by the same person with the same stamp, at the same time, and therefore represent an assembly date.

So, I think, there is plenty of opportunity for the last digit to mean something other than a "shift". It's one possibility.

In some cases we find telephone that have all dates, including receiver and transmitter, matching to the day! Isn't that rather strange from a logistical point of view?  Could transmitter and receiver production really be synchronized so perfectly to plastic molding production that they would be stamped and ready to put into a working phone within hours?  That would mean that parts were not stored at all.  Or where they rather inspected, and stamped, at stations just before entering the assembly lines?  I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, sometime this and sometimes that... production delays happen, problem develop, in the 50s production lines were not computer controlled yet.

Dan/Panther

I propose that the painted dates are assembly dates, whereas the molded markings, could quite possibly be manufactured dates, so that would also account for, non matching figures between painted, and molded.
When I worked in injection molding at GM, it was very common to code dates on molded parts that way, with removable digits.
Makes sense that they would want manufactured dates to be permanent, where assembly dates would not always coincide with manufactured dates.
JMHO

D/P


The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

andre_janew

KS is the official postal abbreviation for the state of Kansas.

unbeldi

Quote from: Dan/Panther on January 10, 2015, 01:03:03 PM
I propose that the painted dates are assembly dates, whereas the molded markings, could quite possibly be manufactured dates, so that would also account for, non matching figures between painted, and molded.
When I worked in injection molding at GM, it was very common to code dates on molded parts that way, with removable digits.
Makes sense that they would want manufactured dates to be permanent, where assembly dates would not always coincide with manufactured dates.
JMHO

D/P

yes, very logical, thanks.  The in-molded date 'dials' should be taken literally as manufacturing dates, no doubt. Many (or most?) of these date inserts into molds can be rotated (dialed) to indicated the month precisely.