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No Dial Tone From Kellogg Red Bar Manual

Started by HarrySmith, December 22, 2018, 02:15:41 PM

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HarrySmith

Hi Guys. Working on my first phone in my new phone workshop! I have a Kellogg Red Bar Manual, very cool looking phone. I have no dial tone. I have done the obvious, checked wires for continuity. Checked all connections are tight, etc. If I tap hookswitch I can hear a very faint click. If I call in it rings, when I pick up handset ringer stops but I can still hear ringing? This has me puzzled. Pics attached
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

Doug Rose

Bring dial tone to the handset only. Rules out the handset cord, handset and the elements
Kidphone

RB

Hi Harry
Your phone looks clean and tight.
I have the same transmitter in my Red Bar. it is toast :( and i don't have a line cord yet.
Have you measured the resistance of the transmitter? mine is open :(
How is your condenser? is the case swelled and cracked open? mine is.
That means a rebuild/replacement if you want it to be right.
your wires look nice, have you checked continuity, just to rule that out...
I think your receiver is ok???
The next thing, "suspected when you said faint ring with hook played with", the hook switches may be bent, or dirty, and only one is
working properly.

RB

Then, I forgot about the DIAL switches...duh :-[
i am just now getting used to dials...
started with cranks...so much to digest :)

Jim Stettler

Jump in Known working elements. A working  500 handset would be fine. If it works , you have the problem mostly solved.
JMO,
Jim S.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

RB


dsk

Hi
It looks like you have a 114A coil, that is for LB, so we have to look for mod or a new coil.
I guess the new coil is hard to get.

dsk

dsk

A resistor of 220ohms between L2 and B2 should solve it.


dsk

RB

DSK, do you have a mustache?
You are some kind of wizard! lol

HarrySmith

Thanks for the suggestions. I will give them a try today. I downloaded the wiring diagram from TCI and it does talk about changing from local battery etc. I will have to try to decipher that.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

dsk

#10
Hi thanks to the great photos, it was easy to identify the circuit.  The right one of the 3 circuits (without connecting a dial ) https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/wiring-diagrams/kellogg-switchboard-and-supply-company/1955-type-1000-telephones-redbar-k1000-tl/file

You could of course add the coil H2-H1 and use a local battery.  The next best could be to make complex circuit with a coil, and a diode and capacitor acting as a battery charged by the line, it will be depending on polarity, but give great just as good voice circuit as the LB circuit (on a short modern line).  All this are complex solutions, and my guess is it will be good enough with a resistor as mentioned over.  Depending on line voltage the resistor could be adjusted to a current about 25 mA  (18-35 mA)  but 220 ohms will probably be OK and keep the current in the current will probably be in the lower part of that register, it is a common resistor and probably available.

If you don't have 220, the try something less. 

dsk


PS   No I do not have a Mustache  ;D  but I have to admit that being called a wizard gave a pleasant feeling, but I am not, I love to solve problems like that. ;) I am pretty sure it will work OK.
DS

HarrySmith

When I put dial tone directly to the handset it sounds good, loud & clear. I put a resistor between L2 & B2 and the only change was on incoming call it  stopped the ringing, line went busy. Still no sound. I had to look online to find a chart for resistor ratings. I have a jar full of all different resistors, I have no idea what is what. According to the chart I found I needed one with 3 Red stripes, that is what I used. I still have no sound. I am getting frustrated.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

dsk

I am wondering whats happening if you just make strap instead of that resistor, it may just work, but I guess on weak receiving, but the other party will hear you well.  (test if the 3 wires from the handset are connected right, not only by color, but by function. ) 


dsk

HarrySmith

OK. That will be next. Time to get ready for Christmas dinner. Thanks.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

HarrySmith

A strap straight across did not work. I put in a 100 resistor and success! I hear dial tone! Not quite done. On incoming calls I can hear my wife fine but she cannot hear me. If I connect my test handset, WE 4 wire, it works fine. I tried switching the wires around also no change.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"