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Keystone Candlestick Telephone

Started by FRParker, January 05, 2019, 06:49:58 PM

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FRParker

I tried to post this once before, but the browser gave out on me and supposedly never posted anything onto this site.  I checked everywhere on this site, and didn't see it.  If it happens to post later for some weird reason, please forgive me for duplicating this post.

Hello everyone,
This is going to be a small novel.  Please forgive me in advance.

This is my first post on the forum.  I have a Candlestick telephone from the Keystone Telephone Company of Philadelphia.  I bought it at an antique store (The largest and most reputable one in Williamsburg, VA) for about $120 dollars.  On the cast iron base, there is a plate that says "American Electric Telephone Co.  Patented".  Anyway, I get the phone home, and learn through observing it that it is a phone that requires an external telephone box, hence why I am post this here instead of the candlestick thread.  Anyway, I opened the receiver to find that all of the parts are there, but are floating loosely around in the casing.  it has a metal plate inside the earpiece, followed by two coils, and then some other pieces.  The cord that comes out of the base and goes to the box are all fabric coated, somewhat old and dirty, and have horseshoe shaped contact clips.  Those have not been tampered with.  The cord going to the handset seem to be too new as the black and red cords within seem to be made of nylon and are very vibrant in color.  I do have reason to believe that this is an original though, as the brass hangup piece has the Keystone Telephone Company's shield moulded within the round ends.  Also, the earpiece and mouth piece are made out of Bakelite and there is enough cast iron on the phone to use it as a Medieval battering ram. :D 

Secondly, I bought a phone box off of eBay that was being sold as an American Electric Product (I know, not a very smart thing that I did).  I got it for $85.  It was the only thing on eBay listed as American Electric that was currently for sale.  Everything else was American Bell, Western Electric, etc.   It has a five bar magneto and has a working (dry cell?) ringer system when the handle is turned.  I understand that doesn't matter for daily use, since the phone lines have changed over the past ~100 years.  Even if it isn't a matching (or closely matching) phone box, I have enough loose capacitors and resistors from my radio hobby that I could turn it into a frankenphone.  I have fixed one phone before: my great grandparents 1949 WE 500 which, compared to this, was a trip.  It does seem to work in my benefit that I have some knowledge of this phone as some modification schematics require a WE 500 for dialing and receiving purposes.  That antique store has one from the late 60s (still rotary) for sale.  If I have to, I'll get that for when I finally get to the point of modifying this thing.

Included in the next couple of posts, pictures will be included of the telephone and the box I bought for it.

Thanks everyone,
Forrest

.....

Welcome to CRPF Forrest.

Butch Harlow

Hi Forrest, a few questions and maybe some assistance.
You have a 49 WE 500?
We really want to see that.
Williamsburg VA? I am in Richmond, which may as well be the moon for finding phones. Which antique store is this? Williamsburg Antique Mall?

Pictures really help in gaining assistance so we can see what you do. They're easy to upload if you keep them under a certain size. There is a thread pinned on the site about posting photos.

The "subset" you bought on Ebay is a magneto box and will not work without so much modification it makes it irrelevant with exception of the ringer. You'd need to wire a network and condenser independent of the rest of the box. Magneto boxes were used on local battery service lines and not compatible with modern POTS central battery systems. You could use probably any WE subset or make one from a 302 or 500 base on the cheap for testing purposes without major modification. There are even covers available for the 302 base that make it into a subset.

Welcome to the forum, it's a great place. Please post up lots of photos and definitely show us that 49 we500. That's a real gem there.

Butch Harlow

FRParker

Thanks for responding so quickly.  Yes, my grandmother and mother both told me that it was the last phone they ever got.  My grandmother remembers the day they had it installed.  After my great grandmother died in 1993, my great grandfather came to Newport News to live with my grandmother before he too passed away in 1998.  We went down to their house in Sanford, Florida over ten years ago, and one of the things brought back in tow was their phone.  It had long been ripped out of the wall by squatters.  It sat in my grandmother's garage until this past summer, when I pulled it out.  I restore radios as my main hobby, which was started by Williamsburg Antique Mall incidentally.  I used the knowledge from that to read the schematic and rewire it.  This past number was the first time my mother has used that phone in over 25 years.  I used Maguiar's car polish to hit the Bakelite.  It currently sits on my desk, ready for any calls that may come.

As far as the pictures are concerned, I am having trouble posting them.  Each time I try to post them, the page goes all white and sits there indefinitely.  I'll have a look at that thread on picture posting and see what's what.

Also, I do plan to use a WE500 to make the ringer box work.  Also, I feel that the phone is more complete with the box, but that's just me.

Butch Harlow

Quote from: FRParker on January 05, 2019, 07:26:23 PM
As far as the pictures are concerned, I am having trouble posting them.  Each time I try to post them, the page goes all white and sits there indefinitely.  I'll have a look at that thread on picture posting and see what's what.

As far as photos go. I use my smartphone to that the pic then I screenshot it and crop it to remove background. It works every time. You can also reduce the resolution of your camera so they fit.
Butch Harlow

Scott

Welcome Forrest, you will love this group. I had trouble as well posting photos. I use a small Sony digital camera with removable card. All I did was select a lower resolution ( this camera has only 2 options), and it was good to go. No problems since. I can't speak for using a cell phone.

Regards,
Scott K.

FRParker

I think I could try emailing them to myself from my iPhone so I can choose their resolution.  Once I get them I can save them to the computer.  I'll try it now.

rdelius

Philadelphia was the last city to have dual telephone companies. Bell and Keystone.The merger took place around wwII.Keystone telephone sets were based on American electric sets

FRParker

1: Keystone manhole cover.
2: Phone as I bought it.
3: Earpiece cap and detached lead.
4: Coils for earpiece.  Note hole on the left.  There should the another lead there.  Instead, only a wire from one of the coils is there.  Also note the mini coil on the right side of the coils.
5: Wires that I find too new.  They seem to be nylon coated.  But who knows though, maybe this phone was kept in an air conditioned building all its life.  To me, it doesn't even look as if those brass tips on the end of the coated wire even connect to the center.  I may have to break the soldering iron out. Also, the metal contact plates that stick out from the leads have a total of four holes, while there are only two wires.  I don't know if this is correct or if I will have to fix it down the road.

Hopefully this works.  I'll be sending photos of the box next.

Crap, all except the first are sideways. All need to be rotated 90 degrees to the right.

FRParker

Okay, after some much needed and appreciated help from TelePlay, I should have appropriate sizes for pictures.  The list that I made above this post still applies in order, save for the manhole cover.

FRParker

Here is the telephone box:

FRParker

#11
Sorry for all the photos, but finally, here are the pictures of that 1949 WE 500 for Mr. Harlow.  On one of the pictures, there is a political ad that my great grandparents saved from I believe the late fifties.  They put some stickers on it from over the years.

EDIT:  Interestingly enough, I did some more digging on this phone and found that there is a date under the phone.  It says 9-56 and 501 C/D.  But the kicker is that it still has a metal dial plate.  I don't understand this because what I read said that the metal dial plates were phased out by 1953.  This phone also has no refurbishing date stamped on it.  What's more is that my grandmother told me that she remembered the day it was installed when she was 12: in 1949.  She was still at home in 1956 and would have most likely remembered the installation of another phone.  Either way, please do not think I am trying to mislead you Mr. Harlow.  I didn't question it until I did a little more digging tonight/ this morning.  I will ask my grandmother again the next time I see her.  Forgive me for having to semi-retract my previous statement.

.....

Quote from: FRParker on January 05, 2019, 11:44:31 PM
Sorry for all the photos, but finally, here are the pictures of that 1949 WE 500 for Mr. Harlow.  On one of the pictures, there is a political ad that my great grandparents saved from I believe the late fifties.  They put some stickers on it from over the years.


No need to apologize for the photos, we like them here. Pictures help tell the story.

Butch Harlow

No need for apology, except for calling me Mr.  ::)
It was very common for Bell to take a malfunctioning set and replace it with another rather than refurbish it in place. It all depends what kind if damage it had or what parts the tech had on his van at the time. You of course would have had a real gem if it were a numbers matching '49. Still a 501 set is a nice thing to have in the collection. You can identify the original build date by looking at the 425 network date as it is riveted to the base. Every other component date would catalog its refurbishment over the years. I have seen sets into the 60's with the metal dial. Thanks for all the pictures.
Butch Harlow

Butch Harlow

With regard to the keystone stick and magneto box, I tend to agree that they look good together. However, I wouldn't make any permanent changes to the box itself. Maybe you could run concealed wiring to a small subset and hide it somewhere for functionality while not disturbing the visual appeal. My WE sticks both work without a subset altogether, but you're right in that the box is part of the look. You could also rig another with a box and add some batteries and have a functioning intercom while actually using the magnetos also.
Butch Harlow