gray WE 684BX subset

[cchaven]

I've had a gray colored Western Electric 684BX subset for a number of years and have always wondered about it.  The only obvious date inside is on the inductor, which is a 101A dated 6-3-41.  From the outside, it's identical to my black 684 which is dated 1/51, except for being gray in color and the baseplate is solid.  On the inside the cover is cast different, and the components are arranged a bit different on the baseplate, though they are the same components in both.  The cover is gray throughout, not painted..though it has darkened/turned a little greenish in spots on the outside.  Any ideas what this would've originally been used with?

Thanks
Jeff

[G-Man]

Is this similar to yours?

[poplar1]

Are you sure it is not Northern Electric? The NE 684BX has a solid metal back and the B1A ringer is mounted with the gongs at the bottom rather than one above the other. The cover may be WE on a NE subset.

[cchaven]

Thanks, that is indeed the wiring diagram that matches it.  I never considered that it might be a Northern Electric base.  It's not marked as such anywhere on it, though the cover is marked "Western Electric Made in U.S.A." on one end.  Was the gray made to match a D1 or other painted pre-war set?

Thanks
Jeff

[poplar1]

I have only seen gray plastic covers, not any gray Bakelite. There should be a date stamped on the inside.

[poplar1]

Northern Electric 684BX: (See photos below)

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1770.0

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8711.0

On WE subsets, all the ones I have seen that were not black or gray were painted, ivory (color code -4) being the most common, as used with the Imperials.

EDIT: The one with a gray cover is a NE 684BX with a WE cover!

[poplar1]

Here are photos of the Western Electric 684A subset. These were often converted to 684BA with B1A ringers. However, the hole in the back is always present on the WE but not on the NE.

Notice that the vents are rotated 90 degrees on the NE covers.

The NE 684BX seems to be a better design than the WE conversions to 684BA. Besides the solid back on the NE, the ringer coils are vertical instead of horizontal.

[cchaven]

Thanks for the info and the pictures.  I didn't have a need for the gray subset, but it was a good price when I picked it up and I had been looking to pick up one for use with some D1/202's.  The cover is plastic, though I'd just as soon it had the black NE cover on it.

Thanks
Jeff

[Mr. Bones]

Here are photos of the Western Electric 684A subset. These were often converted to 684BA with B1A ringers. However, the hole in the back is always present on the WE but not on the NE.

    When these were made to utilize the B1A, did they just flip the gongs, and add spacers, with longer screws, to mount them? Sorry for yet more newbie questions.

    Are the gongs the same, or do they just appear bigger than the standard B1A / 302 setup? Trying to do some recon for fabricating some 302 subsets, slowly inching forward.

    I just fancy the idea of reversing the gongs, and the mfrs obviously did it for a good reason. (No ports on backside, anymore, would be my favourite guess.)

Thanks, in advance, and best regards!

[poplar1]

Here are photos of the Western Electric 684A subset. These were often converted to 684BA with B1A ringers. However, the hole in the back is always present on the WE but not on the NE.

    When these were made to utilize the B1A, did they just flip the gongs, and add spacers, with longer screws, to mount them? Sorry for yet more newbie questions.

    Are the gongs the same, or do they just appear bigger than the standard B1A / 302 setup? Trying to do some recon for fabricating some 302 subsets, slowly inching forward.

    I just fancy the idea of reversing the gongs, and the mfrs obviously did it for a good reason. (No ports on backside, anymore, would be my favourite guess.)

Thanks, in advance, and best regards!

The ringer motors as well as the gongs are different. The 78A ringer (684A) design is similar to that of the 8A ringer (metal 534A subset). The gongs (38A and 39A?) are larger than the 40-type or 41-type gongs in a B1A ringer. The B1A in the WE 684BA  or NE 684BX is the same ringer used in 302s*.

Changing from metal to Bakelite covers changes the electrical properties. This allows the Bakelite cover to be closer to the other parts. So it was necessary to rotate the gongs 90 degrees (parallel to the base) in order to accommodate the new shallow cover.

The method of attaching the 29A gongs on the 8A ringer had already been changed in about 1929: they were inverted so that they could be mounted directly to the ringer chassis instead of to posts. But for the 78A ringer, they were inverted again; otherwise, you would not have been able to adjust the gongs without removing the ringer.

The NE684BX used a redesigned back plate which gave the advantage of mounting the B1A ringer with both gongs at the bottom. WE, on the other hand, converted many 684As to 684BAs by adding an adapter plate. You can often see an older date from the 1930s even though the B1A ringer and 101A induction coil may have dates from the late 1940s. The converted WE version has the disadvantage of the position of the ringer coils.

*While most WE 684BAs have B1A ringers, there are some WE 684BAs with a 78J ringers, which are similar to the 78As but with a higher impedance (4300 Ohms). So the A vs. BA technically indicates low impedance ringer or high, and not old ringer vs. newer type.

By the way, I just noticed that one of the NE 684BX subsets in the photos has a gray WE cover. So we still don't know whether NE made any color other than black.

[Mr. Bones]

The ringer motors as well as the gongs are different. The 78A ringer (684A) design is similar to that of the 8A ringer (metal 534A subset). The gongs (38A and 39A?) are larger than the 40-type or 41-type gongs in a B1A ringer. The B1A in the WE 684BA  or NE 684BX is the same ringer used in 302s*.

     Ahhh! Makes perfect sense, but hard to determine, not having them side-by-side, to do comparative analysis. From pics, it looks rather like the 101x ringer, frame and all, with inverted gongs. Thanks for the detailed clarification; it is most appreciated, Sir!

Changing from metal to Bakelite covers changes the electrical properties...<snip>

No doubt it significantly changes tone, resonance, etc., as well. I  think I would greater appreciate the teeth-jangling resonance of the metal cover, vs the unavoidable, albeit mild, damping effect of the Bakelite covers Others mileage may vary, on this.

*While most WE 684BAs have B1A ringers, there are some WE 684BAs with a 78J ringers, which are similar to the 78As but with a higher impedance (4300 Ohms). So the A vs. BA technically indicates low impedance ringer or high, and not old ringer vs. newer type.

Again, many thanks! This clears up some grey technical areas for me. Similar to the 102/202 designations, vs. B1/D1...

     I thank you, very much, for taking the time to provide such detailed information. I find such things indispensable, for future reference.

Best regards!